Hello All,

So heres' the question. Why has'nt Spideys' strength endurance and agility been updated. I have only seen one website to appropiately stat Spidey, in my opinion. But most sites and the comics seem to stick to cannon that Spideys strength is in 10-15 ton range and his reflexes 15 times faster than a humans. But that has'nt changed since he recieved his powers, which were in high school - 12th grade to be exact. Yet, undoubtly he has gotten stronger, faster and tougher as he has grown up. Take the example of Colossus, his strength as a teenager was about 75 tons and this was canoon for a long time. But the writers finally increased his strength into the Class 100 range when they came to their senses that as he grew older and training he would get stronger. If Spideys strength and agility is porpotional to a spiders, then be being conservative if an adult is twice as strong as a teenager then Spideys strength should be at least X4 times what it was when he gained his powers. This would put him in the 40-50 ton range and Amazing strength in game mechanics. Likewise, his agility and reflexes would have to be at least X2 what they were when he gained his powers. Thus, putting his reflexes in the range of 25-30 times faster than a human and in the Monstrous range. Surely, having faced numerous foes and innumerable challenges I think Spideys endurance should be at least Amazing. When he gained his powers his Fighting was listed as Remarkable. Are you telling me that he has learned nothing or gained no experience from all his trails? Thus, I would stat him at Incredible fighting. For modification purposes I would improve his reason to Remarkable, he has earned a masters degree and a boost to his psyche up to Amazing. He is one of the most indomitable wills on the planet.
Stats:
Fighting: Incredible (40)
Agility: Monstrous (75)
Strength: Amazing (50)
Endurance: Amazing (50)
Reason: Remarkable (30)
Intitution: Remarkable (30), without spider-sense
Psyche: Amazing (50)

Health: 215
Karma: 110

I understand the danger is that it makes Spidey on the Uber-powerful side but I think it reflects him mor accurately. I believe Ben Reily has the most updated and corrected Stats that I agree with so far. Let me know if you agree or disagree. Your comments are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks

I don't think a teenager is half as strong as an adult. I think the difference is small enough that no strength increase is warranted. Just my opinion. I also don't think Spider-Man is as good a fighter as Wolverine or Daredevil, both of which are statted at Incredible. Remarkable accurately represents his informal "training through doing" experience over the years. I'll agree with you about the Agility though. It should be Monstrous. His Psyche is good at Remarkable or Incredible. I don't think he's one of the strongest wills of superhero-dom. Amazing is Captain America or Dr Doom level. Peter is just too conflicted to be that high. Look at how wishy-washy he was during Civil War. He didn't know what to believe.

As always, these are simply my own opinions. Yours may vary. An interesting thread though, to say the least.

I don’t know… But at 215 HP Spider-Man would be unbeatable… And most times Spider-Man is illustrated as REALLY struggling just stay on par with Characters who have far lower capabilities….

When I look at Spider-Man verse his competition…. And other Characters just putting the smack down on him… He almost always has to find an angle or tactic to beat them…

I mean Spider-Man always wins eventually, but he has to use Karma and be pushed to his limits…

I feel he should have these stats…


F: RM:30 (No Training, just simple raw ability to throw down and brawl due to Strength and Speed)
A: SN:60 (Far better than Max Human Agility and accounts for his heightened perception)
S: IM:25 (Able to heft about 2 to 3 tons with his ‘Sticky’ leverage and he’s a Slim Guy)
E: FN:35 (Mostly focused on Cardo, Energy, and Vitality… not so much on ‘Tuffness’)
R: EX:20 (General Applied Sciences and reactive battle tactics)
I: AM:50 (Normal is GD:10…. But his Danger Sense is ‘ON’ at all times)
P: RM:30 (Generally the top rung of Human Caliber)

HP: 150
KP: 100


That’s just my opinion, but other Characters tend to Clobber Spider-Man in head to head battle… he always has to back down and scramble away from the fight and figure out what their weakness is…

I agree Spidey Stats should be Higher and He should be a Little Stronger.

waverider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello All,
>
> So heres' the question. Why has'nt
> Spideys' strength endurance and agility been
> updated. I have only seen one website to
> appropiately stat Spidey, in my opinion. But most
> sites and the comics seem to stick to cannon that
> Spideys strength is in 10-15 ton range and his
> reflexes 15 times faster than a humans. But that
> has'nt changed since he recieved his powers, which
> were in high school - 12th grade to be exact. Yet,
> undoubtly he has gotten stronger, faster and
> tougher as he has grown up. Take the example of
> Colossus, his strength as a teenager was about 75
> tons and this was canoon for a long time. But the
> writers finally increased his strength into the
> Class 100 range when they came to their senses
> that as he grew older and training he would get
> stronger. If Spideys strength and agility is
> porpotional to a spiders, then be being
> conservative if an adult is twice as strong as a
> teenager then Spideys strength should be at least
> X4 times what it was when he gained his powers.
> This would put him in the 40-50 ton range and
> Amazing strength in game mechanics. Likewise, his
> agility and reflexes would have to be at least X2
> what they were when he gained his powers. Thus,
> putting his reflexes in the range of 25-30 times
> faster than a human and in the Monstrous range.
> Surely, having faced numerous foes and innumerable
> challenges I think Spideys endurance should be at
> least Amazing. When he gained his powers his
> Fighting was listed as Remarkable. Are you telling
> me that he has learned nothing or gained no
> experience from all his trails? Thus, I would stat
> him at Incredible fighting. For modification
> purposes I would improve his reason to Remarkable,
> he has earned a masters degree and a boost to his
> psyche up to Amazing. He is one of the most
> indomitable wills on the planet.
> Stats:
> Fighting: Incredible (40)
> Agility: Monstrous (75)
> Strength: Amazing (50)
> Endurance: Amazing (50)
> Reason: Remarkable (30)
> Intitution: Remarkable (30), without spider-sense
> Psyche: Amazing (50)
>
> Health: 215
> Karma: 110
>
> I understand the danger is that it makes Spidey on
> the Uber-powerful side but I think it reflects him
> mor accurately. I believe Ben Reily has the most
> updated and corrected Stats that I agree with so
> far. Let me know if you agree or disagree. Your
> comments are welcome and appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks

>>>>>Welcome to the board.

I always felt Spiderman has Monstrous agility. The rest of his stats seemed fine to me.

I also think the marvel chart lacked a bit in terms of dodging. No typical fighter could hit Spiderman, yet on the power charts, it can happen all too often.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2009 01:54PM by Taarna.

waverider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello All,
>
> So heres' the question. Why has'nt
> Spideys' strength endurance and agility been
> updated. I have only seen one website to
> appropiately stat Spidey, in my opinion. But most
> sites and the comics seem to stick to cannon that
> Spideys strength is in 10-15 ton range and his
> reflexes 15 times faster than a humans. But that
> has'nt changed since he recieved his powers, which
> were in high school - 12th grade to be exact.


Absolutely incorrect. Spiderman, just like every other Marvel character, hase grown stronger over the years. Just as Ben Grim could initialy only lift 5 tons when he first appeared Spidey could only lift around 1 ton. Also Spidey gained his powers when he was about 15, which would have been more like 10th grade. Blame the nerd in me for being so exact.

To back up my claim here are Spidey's teenage stats straight from the Webs Box Set published by TSR.

F: 20 H: 120
A: 40 K: 60
S: 30
E: 30 Popularity: 10
R: 10
I: 10
P: 40

As you can see those shows overall increases in all abilities both mental and physical over the years for Spiderman into his adulthood. Which answers all the other comments you made concerning his growth. The only reason Ben's stats are higher is that they reflect a futher transformation of Spiderman as chronicled in "The Other" story arc. Sadly all those stats and new powers were removed with the restructuring of the "One More Day" story which has effectively put Spiderman back to his adult (classic) statistics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2009 03:38PM by Mr Happy.

Aslo according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Spiderman as an adult could press 10 tons, after he was agumented in The Other storyline his strength doubled to 20 tons. He aslo gained the following:

His agility and endurance also increased.
He gained night vision.
He could sense vibrations in the air via the hairs on his arms or along web lines he was holding on to.
He could stick objects to any part of his body not just his hands.
He could produce organic webbing.
He had stingers sheathed in his forearms that had a paralyzing venom in them.
His spider sense worked at a higher level giving him greater knowledge of the type of threat he faced instead of just a vague warning.
He gained a healing factor (not regeneration)
He could in some ways comunicate with large groups of spiders (individual spiders didnt have enough intelligence).
Spiders would sometimes aid him unbidden.

Again, sadly, One More Day took all this cool new stuff away from Spidey returning him to his "classic" stats.

I prefer the Amazing Spider-Man to the Monstrous one. I like his agility at Amazing.

It's his Spidey-Sense [M8/ Danger Sense - UPB] that lets him dodge lasers.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2009 04:19PM by Dead Sidekick.

It was a sad day all around when all that growth and epic storytelling was ripped away by some hack more interested in making everyone have to go with his fanon ideas instead of respecting what the fans wanted. Definitely great motivation to reject that deal with the devil from the most moral and responsible hero ever at marvel as a discontinuity and keep in good and wholesome in your own games.

ok question. What could spiderman or anyone relly do if they had Danger Sense at UN level? always wanted to know.

Depends on how accurately it's portrayed by the GM. Given it's like having short range 100% accurate precognition you'd get a warning of danger 16 turns in advance and you'd get to substitute that Unearthly rank for any of your lower ranked FASERIP for things like dodging, evading, or Intuition for Initiative bonuses.

Before the fiasco of OMD we saw Spider-man getting a perception of every danger in the area around him, how close it was, what direction, etc. What you could expect from a high-level Danger Sense I'd say, to the point just thinking about going to a dangerous area would give you a warning heads-up since you get so much advance warning. For example in the Gang Wars trilogy at one point you go into a building where a bomb's set to go of, you'd know there was danger while outside and down the street and feel it growing stronger the closer you got to the building. Long before you ever got in front of the building let alone went inside.

i would love to see spidy get trained in martial arts. or let the hand get a hold of him and train him as a ninja!!

StrykerSigma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i would love to see spidy get trained in martial
> arts. or let the hand get a hold of him and train
> him as a ninja!!

In an old pen-and-paper game I played a botched Spider-Clone that fell into the hands of SHIELD during its incubation and was dying, and was subsequently grafted into a Life Model Decoy and trained as a special ops agent. Futher mutations had this Spider-Clone (I named him Orbweaver) sprouting extra eyes and 4 more arms, each with the natural web spinnerets and stingers that Spiderman had developed at the time.

It was a cool character with hella matial arts / ninja / spy skills.

Ironically, he was stomped to death by a character with the Growth power.

Dead Sidekick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In an old pen-and-paper game I played a botched Spider-Clone that fell into the hands of SHIELD during its incubation and was dying, and was subsequently grafted into a Life Model Decoy and trained as a special ops agent. Futher mutations had this Spider-Clone (I named him Orbweaver) sprouting extra eyes and 4 more arms, each with the natural web spinnerets and stingers that Spiderman had developed at the time.
>
> It was a cool character with hella matial arts / ninja / spy skills.
>
> Ironically, he was stomped to death by a character with the Growth power.

Heh.. Buggy go squish

Redman II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dead Sidekick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In an old pen-and-paper game I played a botched
> Spider-Clone that fell into the hands of SHIELD
> during its incubation and was dying, and was
> subsequently grafted into a Life Model Decoy and
> trained as a special ops agent. Futher mutations
> had this Spider-Clone (I named him Orbweaver)
> sprouting extra eyes and 4 more arms, each with
> the natural web spinnerets and stingers that
> Spiderman had developed at the time.
> >
> > It was a cool character with hella matial arts /
> ninja / spy skills.
> >
> > Ironically, he was stomped to death by a
> character with the Growth power.
>
> Heh.. Buggy go squish

It was nasty. The kind of character death that makes you get up and leave the room so no one sees you wipe a tear from your eye (from laughing).

I think I'm going to rework Orbweaver up as a 600-point sample character sheet for my upcoming PBEM campaign.

Just because the character history is so fun.

There was one what-if where Spider-man was trained in Martial Arts although sadly it was a reality where he didn't become a crimefighter and was an actor instead (he stopped the criminal not because it was right but because it would be good press). While he did do some good (he made contact with the X-men and due to his efforts to market them benefited human/mutant relations and did the same with the FF) there were many sad events as well (JJJ's son died in the capsule crash, he went insane with grief, Daredevil became nothing more than his bodyguard and trainer).

I have though wished to see him get more fundamental martial arts and combat training that he's never been able to get due to his life never leaving him time free for such pursuits. Combined with his exceptional FASERIP he could prove one of the most formidable fighters around and far beyond what he's already at.

I actually think formalized training would hurt Spidey's fighting style. He relys so much on his speed and spider sense that a true martial arts style would take away from his uniquely random "style of no style" fighting. Its this inability to predict his actions that make him so incredibly effective as a fighter.

Actually, I think Lost Track form, Shaolin Drunken Boxing, Monkey Style Gung-Fu or possibly even Brazillian Capoera would all be complimental to Peter's style of movement.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2009 03:01PM by Chronomancer.

If we go off what we have seen in the comic books, I think Spider man's agility is best described as Monstrous. The game gives him a rank of Amazing. The rank of amazing to me is a bit low for Spidey.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Also is there a popular home grown rank between Monstrous and Amazing? Say a score of 65 for " Fantastic "?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2008 02:46PM by Taarna.

After Spider-Man's rebirth, his agility is *definitely* Monstrous rank. Before it was Amazing. The thing also to remember is that Peter has a +1CS with his web shooters anyway.

As Skycutter would say, "The TAG has spoken."

*LOL*

I think he should either have Mn or some form of Hyper-Speed. I have read before, that he is 15 times faster then a normal human.

MN:75 Agility…. No Doubt….

But Lower his strength to RM:30…… IN:40 just seems too Strong for Spidey…. And he is often Manhandled by Character’s of lesser Strength……




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2008 06:58PM by TankerAce.

Spider-man doesn't have Hyper-Speed that multiplier is a representation of reaction time which is factored into Agility, just like Captain america is 4 times more agile and capable than any olympic gymnist that ever competed. Pre-Other Spider-man was Amazing after his death and rebirth and tapping into his full potential he moved up to Monstrous agility (although I think he should be considered a Weapon Specialist with his Webshooters and get a +2CS to hit since we've seen he never misses except under extraordinary circumstances and has extremely high levels of practice with his targeting skills from swinging around).

I'm in full agreement with giving him Weapons Specialist as a Talent with his Web Shooters.

I like the Weapons Specialist: Web Shooters, but post one more day, and jjust in general, i've always thought Apider-Man as high end Amazing, but not Monsterous. I see him being better than nightcrawler, but not by leaps and bounds.

CapoCastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the Weapons Specialist: Web Shooters, but
> post one more day, and jjust in general, i've
> always thought Apider-Man as high end Amazing, but
> not Monsterous. I see him being better than
> nightcrawler, but not by leaps and bounds.

I agree with this. Weapons specialists for Spiderman with his web shooters. He can make " called shots :. I also think Spiderman's agility is better than Nightcrawlers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2008 12:45PM by Taarna.

i think Am is fine, comic book wise his spidersense would make him apear as fast someone with a higher agility.

Someone has already eluded to this, but I throw it out anyway. Perhaps this isn't as cut and dry as Amazing (50) or Monstrous (75), but more a case of a hero that has an Agility of Amazing (60) or Monstrous (68). Something kind of in between those benchmarks. Where to put him I'm not really sure, but considering rank number could help.

CapoCastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the Weapons Specialist: Web Shooters, but
> post one more day, and jjust in general, i've
> always thought Apider-Man as high end Amazing, but
> not Monsterous. I see him being better than
> nightcrawler, but not by leaps and bounds.


But Nightcrawler also has Tumbling & Acrobatics, this should give him the edge over Spiderman in the agility department. Maybe we should give Spiderman Tumbling and/or Acrobatics talents?

Good point. He probably should have both of those talents.