What if you could make your own "What If?"

I don't think anyone's dismissing your examples per se'. I think it's well documented the types of foes Captain America has beaten that far outclass him in terms of power.

One dismissal I do see though is the superhuman foes that Conan has beaten. he doesn't just beat down human scrubs. he faces down outright sorcerors, monsters, like giant serpent beasts that have lightning fast reflexes and insurmountable strength, embodied demigods, all kinds of mythic level stuff.

And that is simply addressed to acknowledge that /both/ heroes beat things that are supposed to be far greater than them.

And for the record, Captain America ages. The only reason he doesn't look like a 100 year old man is because he was frozen in a block of ice for several decades, and didn't age /specifically during the time he was in suspended animation/. Afterwards he still ages normally. the SSS doesn't make him either immortal or unable to die of old age.

capocastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think anyone's dismissing your examples
> per se'. I think it's well documented the types
> of foes Captain America has beaten that far
> outclass him in terms of power.
>
> One dismissal I do see though is the superhuman
> foes that Conan has beaten. he doesn't just beat
> down human scrubs. he faces down outright
> sorcerors, monsters, like giant serpent beasts
> that have lightning fast reflexes and
> insurmountable strength, embodied demigods, all
> kinds of mythic level stuff.
>
> And that is simply addressed to acknowledge that
> /both/ heroes beat things that are supposed to be
> far greater than them.
>
> And for the record, Captain America ages. The
> only reason he doesn't look like a 100 year old
> man is because he was frozen in a block of ice for
> several decades, and didn't age /specifically
> during the time he was in suspended animation/.
> Afterwards he still ages normally. the SSS
> doesn't make him either immortal or unable to die
> of old age.


I have to give it to you Capo, this is the most level headed I have seen you. Thanks! But I haven't dismissed anything! Just cause I didn't mention it doesn't mean I don't care about it. And I already said that I am not uneducated about Conan or his story. But it was asked of me to explain and I did. Though I still disagree with the comparison.

And for the record, no one said Cap doesn't age! But as far as I know, when Conan ages he will lose a fraction of his abilities over time that will increase with age. To my knowledge this is not so for Cap. Right there is a reason Conan will lose! Or maybe you'll tell me some poorly written story that says other wise. In the meantime, I assert "A DRAW!!"

____________________________________________


"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

I haven't seen any evidence that Cap's supposedly immune to aging, if anything he's shown aging anytime that they look to him in the future. The MU2 specifically showed him getting older and losing his edge and reflexes which partly lead to his death at Loki's hands. Plus comparisons of who would win a battle always goes by both characters in their prime, you can always make it easy on your favorite pitting him against an aged opponent so he's got an unfair advantage, and we're talking Cap and Conan at their prime head-to-head. Conan's also been showing to age fairly well all things considered for a mortal being, retaining much of his capacity even as what passes as an old man in that era.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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MU2? Please, I won't go there! And I would not pit an aged Conan against a peek Cap?! You think too little of me.... Sad.8-)

____________________________________________


"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

Isn't that exactly what you said though, referring to how Conan would age and end up weak but Cap would always remain at peak, so setting things during an assumed period where Conan's too old to hold his own, while assuming Cap would always remain at peak when none of established canon supports that?

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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A What If that comes to my mind is What If Captain Marvel I had the Quantum Bands instead of the Nega-Bands? How about What If the Sentry had fought in Annihilation? How about What If Doctor Doom had kept the power he stole from the Beyonder in the first Secret Wars? Tell me what you think.

I'd wondered about the Captain Mar-Vell What-If? myself, since he'd have most likely survived his encounter with Nitro without getting cancer, but the encounter might never have occured in the first place because the Kree-Skrull war wouldn't have been stopped by Rick Jones because he wouldn't have had the mental bonding with Mar-Vell through the Nega-Bands the Supreme Intelligence required to make use of his latent psionic potential.

For the Secret Wars What-If? are you considering it before that spite-motivated Retcon of the Beyonder's power levels or after? Also since Doom was only present due to a time paradox all of reality might have collapsed without the loop being closed.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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The idea of the Sentry fighting the Annihilation Wave is interesting. The only problem with it is that Marvel has not been very clear on what exactly his power level is. So it would be hard to determine his effect without a more detailed knowledge of his abilities. If he stands on the same power level as the Heralds of Galactus, then I don't know that he would have had much effect on the outcome. If he is supposed to be more powerful......who knows. Usually I would view him as a Superman type character, but his powers are different enough that I would hate to assume what he could or could't do.

We need data!

Cool idea though.

Anyone have some definitive stats for Sentry that we can work with? The stuff posted here is vague at best.

TLD

Marvel's been pretty vague about his abilities, likely in part because of his homage/rip-off of Superman's iconic nature and the multiple backstories that they created for him. I don't see where we'd get more definitive information on him anytime soon, other than he's a deux ex machina to quickly end anything and saddled with a rediculous array of mental problems to justify why he's not saving the day all over the place and other heroes have to fight the good fight instead of him.

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-- Peter David

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Since we are on the topic....

What if the Sentry had never forgotten who he was?

TLD

What if Lobo became an Elder of the Universe?

----

We'd all be $%#@ed.

He did, that's what the Obliterator is/was, until they treated him like a joke, turning him into a whiney geek (Didn't help that the artist drew him so silly looking) instead of being as powerful and deadly in his field as the rest. Heck they've shown the Collector being a bigger threat and more successful and effective killer than the Obliterator, who gained his immortality from is obsession with killing everything he could. You'd think he'd be a touch more effective than people who's obsessions ran toward things like playing games, collecting things, or just seeing himself running everywhere.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Well, I don't see Conan beating Captain America until they ban the use of Super-Soldier steroids in Cimmerian duels.

"What If Doctor Doom had kept the power he stole from the Beyonder in the first Secret Wars?"

Doom, being a momma's boy at heart (don't say this to his face), would go straight to Mephisto's infernal realm to get his mother's soul back.

<i>What if the Sentry had never forgotten who he was?</i>

The Void would manifest itself as the absence of a third (after Gladiator and Hyperion) Superman pastiche in the Marvel Universe. ;)

"What if the Alien Symboite bonded with Ben Riley?"

Who's up for Morlun (snake eyes, you lose...) chasing the Scarlet Symbiote around, only to have the clone die in battle with a serial killer named Cletus...

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't that exactly what you said though, referring
> to how Conan would age and end up weak but Cap
> would always remain at peak, so setting things
> during an assumed period where Conan's too old to
> hold his own, while assuming Cap would always
> remain at peak when none of established canon
> supports that?


Just a simple response! That's not what I meant or said!:D Thank you, thank you, thank you! *And the audience cheers*

____________________________________________


"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

Several years ago I ran a game that matched up Lobo v. Obliterator. Lobo won.

What if Magneto had convinced Xavier to join him after they found the Nazi gold. What if together they made a stand against humanity?

Who would have been there to stand against them?
Would there be any version of the X men or anything like it?