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What if you could make your own "What If?"
Posted by The Last Duskblade
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For that What-If because Xavier was trapped in that temple digging his way out and unable to do more than telepathically monitor the world he wasn't able to create his team of X-men to deal with Magneto as happened in the Earth-616 timeline, so the world had no examples of good mutants to go with and anti-mutant sentiments shot up rapidly. The first wave of Sentinels were similar to the Mark II of the prime reality, although once he was free he quickly destroyed everything in his path. When the FF got in his way he used his telepathic powers to raid the minds of hundreds of scientists around the world to create a permanent cure for the powers of the FF, the Hulk, and other heroes, blackmailed Spider-man into staying out of mutant affairs by threatening his aunt, and eventually touched off WWIII.
He became a despotic ruler as Magneto's been depicted as being when running the world, with a 'mutants are all that matter' mindset and only through a chain of events set into motion by his stepbrother (who felt the power of the Juggernaut should have been his) and Magneto (who had gone into hiding for years after his failure to defeat Xavier in their first encounter) did some of his X-men form the heroic ideal to resist him and thanks to a trap by Magneto Xavier/Juggernaut found himself floating endlessly through space and the earth soon to become a battleground between Magneto's supporters and those who followed Cyclops and his cleaned up devotion to Xavier's original uncorrupted dream. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
As far as What-ifs I'd like to see, I wouldn't mind seeing what if Captain America had finished the Power Broker process and acquired superhuman strength and endurance. While he had temporary super-strength at one point I think it would be interesting seeing him moved up to Incredible or even Amazing Strength and Monstrous Endurance.
Hmmm, actually I wonder what if Cap had bonded with the Captain Universe power, considering it in at least one what-if permanently bonded with Spider-man because of his heroic devotion to good having it bond to Cap would be an interesting what-if. I think my preferences right now would be to see some cross-overs with previously published what-if stories, where the heroes (of even villains) encounter realities that diverged from that one decision on their part. For example, how would the earth-616 Dr. Doom handle entering the reality where he listened to Reed and became a hero instead of a villain? How would the FF handle entering the reality where Reed was killed by that kangaroo court held by Lilandra and resulted in the destruction of the Shi'ar homeworld at the survivors' hands and eventual death of the remaining members? "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Interesting, since they did have a What-If where Iron Man was a traitor, but because they had to be complex on it he was forced into it because he didn't get his armor powered up before the agents stormed in and they installed controls into his armor that would kill him if he didn't do as ordered. I think for a What-if like that about Cap they'd use similar ruses or as they've done in other What-Ifs and have the original safely tucked away somewhere and have it be a replacement be the villain (like the anti-communist Cap of the 50s, or like the one what-if, have it be the Red Skull in a clone body of Cap) and the real cap gets released to stop him.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2007 09:40AM by Nightmask.
Hmm, I like this topic! A What-if story I would like to see is based on the time that Cap picked up Thor's hammer and got his strength but unlike any other did not change! I'd like to see a story where he continued that fight and "Cap kept Thor's hammer" only to get one of his own like Beta Ray Bill!
Another What-if I'd like to see is instead of Wolverine, "Cap was trained by Stick" during the time his super soldier serum was weakening. Thus adding expert martial arts to his already formidable abilities making the loss of his serum related abilites not so important! And thus making him on the level or Iron Fist or Shang Chi, yet above Daredevil. Lastly, What-if "Franklin Richards' became the most powerful mutant ever!" And that carp story of Psi-Lord never happened. Instead his powers developed perfectly under Xaviers teachings. What-if "Sabretooth killed Wolverine" and took his head! Then going as far as killing all other feral mutants along with Wolverine's son! In the end proving once and for all that he was Wolverine's father!! ____________________________________________ "POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
I do like that idea of what if Captain America kept or somehow acquired Thor's hammer or a replica like Beta Ray Thor and Red Norvell have. A what-if I'd have liked to see continue was one where Conan ended up with Thor's hammer; just imagine Conan risen to godhood and a valiant hero wielding Thor's hammer. Another What-if left floating the thought as to what if Conan had become an Avenger after a diverence from a previous what-if had him getting stuck in the present day and even in conflict with Captain America.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I do like that idea of what if Captain America > kept or somehow acquired Thor's hammer or a > replica like Beta Ray Thor and Red Norvell have. > A what-if I'd have liked to see continue was one > where Conan ended up with Thor's hammer; just > imagine Conan risen to godhood and a valiant hero > wielding Thor's hammer. Another What-if left > floating the thought as to what if Conan had > become an Avenger after a diverence from a > previous what-if had him getting stuck in the > present day and even in conflict with Captain > America. Alright, Conan? You strike me with words hard as steel! Gee, as close to Godhood in man form IS Conan! Thor's hammer would be overkill. My understanding is that he would likely reject it as he rejected ruling with that girl in Conan the Destroyer. Yet the idea is still full of testosterone fun and action packed panels! The only way I see this story coming together is if he got mixed up with Thor or some monsters in Midgard and needed the boost to defeat them and was intoxicated by the power! Loki could have a hand in this?! Hmmm, but as far as Conan becoming an Avenger? Again I see a conflect with his character. He normally leads, which brings him into an inevitable clash with Cap, but he typically likes to be alone as opposed to fighting in groups. This is especially so when he fights! The Avengers might be a favorable possibility since they frequently enguage in battle, yet the group thing will eventually kill it. Actually I see him finding his way to Asgard. Almost as if this Avengers story would arc into the one where he finds himself endowed with the power of Thor! My two cents on Conan versus Cap: Cap would win and Conan would respect him for his skill and endurance! But the fight would be one where the two are sizing each other up as opposed to taking each other out. Remembering that Conan is no clod or savage and had training in philosophy, and various fighting styles! Cap may actually end up teaching him a few things! ____________________________________________ "POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
I'm sorry, I guess I should have been more clear, as I was really wanting to see continuations of already published what-ifs. One What-If had Thor when trying to find Loki early in the comic era in a cavern with gateways to various times, and Thor took a different branch in the What-If and ended up in Conan's time. Berift of his memory because of the long separation from his native time he struck up a friendship with Conan and climbed Crom's mountain where he learned who he truly was and Crom stole his hammer and tossed it back to the mortal realms when Thor refused to give it up as tribute. While Conan thought Thor was crazy when he came back down claiming to be a god he stuck by him, and helped him track down his hammer, which had been claimed by one of the evil mages of the era (Thoth-Amon I think). Thor died in the attempt to reclaim his hammer and passed it on to Conan, asking him to give it to Crom and tell him that Thor was no more and offer it as a token of peace across the ages. Now worthy of Mjolnir Conan set forth to climb Crom's mountain with the final message text stating how Conan was on the start of a journey to become something far more. With that change in him he could have easily become a demi-god or full-fledged God of Thunder in his day and age and a being of worship into modern times in that reality.
For the What-If where Conan was trapped in modern times he fought (and defeated) Captain America, who was after him as he'd taken over a black gang and was a drug-runner and general thug, but after his battle with Captain America and learning that a man could fight for what was right against the powers that be and that there were even groups who did their conscience the story fades out on him with the thought that he might join up with Avengers or at least turn from being a predator and more of a protector and hero to the community he was part of. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I'm sorry, I guess I should have been more clear, > as I was really wanting to see continuations of > already published what-ifs. One What-If had Thor > when trying to find Loki early in the comic era in > a cavern with gateways to various times, and Thor > took a different branch in the What-If and ended > up in Conan's time. Berift of his memory because > of the long separation from his native time he > struck up a friendship with Conan and climbed > Crom's mountain where he learned who he truly was > and Crom stole his hammer and tossed it back to > the mortal realms when Thor refused to give it up > as tribute. While Conan thought Thor was crazy > when he came back down claiming to be a god he > stuck by him, and helped him track down his > hammer, which had been claimed by one of the evil > mages of the era (Thoth-Amon I think). Thor died > in the attempt to reclaim his hammer and passed it > on to Conan, asking him to give it to Crom and > tell him that Thor was no more and offer it as a > token of peace across the ages. Now worthy of > Mjolnir Conan set forth to climb Crom's mountain > with the final message text stating how Conan was > on the start of a journey to become something far > more. With that change in him he could have > easily become a demi-god or full-fledged God of > Thunder in his day and age and a being of worship > into modern times in that reality. > > For the What-If where Conan was trapped in modern > times he fought (and defeated) Captain America, > who was after him as he'd taken over a black gang > and was a drug-runner and general thug, but after > his battle with Captain America and learning that > a man could fight for what was right against the > powers that be and that there were even groups who > did their conscience the story fades out on him > with the thought that he might join up with > Avengers or at least turn from being a predator > and more of a protector and hero to the community > he was part of. Yuck, but very interesting! Lol! Thor dying..yet as I stated Loki would have to be involved! Nice, but a little ambitious for Conan. The same for Conan beating Cap, but maybe that's me. If Cap had anything on Conan it's the will and spirit of perseverence! Conan epitomizes what one can do when his will is forged by hardship. But Cap has already come from here and further forged his will in the fires of righteousness. When all others give up hope and all others doubt, Cap has hope and gives hope to others! As Thor said, "I will follow this man through the gates of Hades." An honor few, if any mortals receive! And as the majority of heroes in Secret Wars along with Xavier established that Cap was the best to lead due to his heart & strength of character! ____________________________________________ "POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
Wasn't anything ambitious about it on Conan's part, it was a duty laid upon him by a friend, and as an honorable man his word is his bond and Thor was most definitely his friend in that other reality. He earned his worthiness to wield Mjolnir and I think his rising up to godhood after such changes to his heart and spirit fitting.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Wasn't anything ambitious about it on Conan's > part, it was a duty laid upon him by a friend, and > as an honorable man his word is his bond and Thor > was most definitely his friend in that other > reality. He earned his worthiness to wield > Mjolnir and I think his rising up to godhood after > such changes to his heart and spirit fitting. Ok, my turn! I did not explain well enough. I meant that Conan living while Thor dies is ambitious. And Conan beating Cap on any day is ambitious. In my book [and you're welcome to yours], NOT HAPPENIN-NOT EVEN IN FICTION! But it's novel and entertaining that someone recognizes Conan for what he is and is capable of. I just don't like the examples they picked. I would be more comfortable if he survived Balder or one of the Warriors Three. Or that he bested the Falcon or Hawkeye or Wolverine [poor examples, but Cap; NEVER- not even in his dreams!] Remember Cap has endurance and strength all over Conan, PERIOD. That's without including skill. Why do folks keep forgetting that this boy has also gone into battle alone and bested troops of people! TAKE THAT Batman fans!!! When has the Dark Knight ever done that? Well Cap has done it numerous times! To Conan's credit so has he, but don't think for one second Conan has anything over CAP?! Nah, not havin it! Sorry!8-):D ____________________________________________ "POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
Not so ambitious for Conan to outlive Thor when Thor's power was so reduced by being so far in the past and during an age when other gods reigned supreme that he was little more than a powerful mortal at that point. His body simply couldn't handle the strain required to wrest control of Mjolnir back from Thoth-Amon. Conan's last words were 'So you really were a god long-hair," before he took up the burden of Mjolnir and set off on his journey to become far more.
Conan beat Captain America because Cap underestimated him (got a sword plunged into his shoulder because of it), seeing him as just a thug, and as far as strength and endurance goes Conan's always been depicted as having phenomenal endurance and peak human strength and as agile as a Gymnast. Seems like you're forgetting that Conan's also gone into battle against armies and won, of the two they're evenly matched and who would win in a fight would come down to as much luck as skill. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Not so ambitious for Conan to outlive Thor when > Thor's power was so reduced by being so far in the > past and during an age when other gods reigned > supreme that he was little more than a powerful > mortal at that point. His body simply couldn't > handle the strain required to wrest control of > Mjolnir back from Thoth-Amon. Conan's last words > were 'So you really were a god long-hair," before > he took up the burden of Mjolnir and set off on > his journey to become far more. > > Conan beat Captain America because Cap > underestimated him (got a sword plunged into his > shoulder because of it), seeing him as just a > thug, and as far as strength and endurance goes > Conan's always been depicted as having phenomenal > endurance and peak human strength and as agile as > a Gymnast. Seems like you're forgetting that > Conan's also gone into battle against armies and > won, of the two they're evenly matched and who > would win in a fight would come down to as much > luck as skill. Nightmask, did you even read my post!? I did say that Conan has gone into battle against many and with all do credit to him for these match ups. What makes them ambitious is that it takes a weakened Thor and a Cap underestimating him for Conan to have the edge! Either way you only prove my point, which is, all things as they should be Conan doesn't stand a chance! There's no way you can tell me that his strength and endurance is at Caps level. He may function at near peek human levels, but Cap functions at peek human levels and trains every single day to maintain it! Conan's training is battle where he finds it! It isn't always with the foes that test him to his limits! So, please let's not pretend I am unfamiliar with Conan or his limits. Remember that Cap gives as good as he gets! Landing a solid blow on Conan should put him down! Conan just isn't a match for either unless they are somehow handicapped! With Thor it was his "power was so reduced by being so far in the past and during an age when other gods reigned supreme that he was little more than a powerful mortal at that point." And with Cap it was that "Cap underestimated him (got a sword plunged into his shoulder because of it), seeing him as just a thug..." Nuff said! ____________________________________________ "POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
Yes I read your post but the idea Conan isn't a match for Captain America just doesn't work. Conan started with the natural physical potential that Steve Rogers required the Super-Soldier formula to achieve. He's been shown maintaining that peak physical condition for decades without the help of anything but good genetics and physical activity. As a brawny barbarian type Conan's regularly engaged in some kind of physical activity, whether surviving battles or the wilderness. The idea that Conan's inferior to Captain America just isn't so. I've read enough of the novels and the official comics from Marvel to know that they're equals.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Interesting, and also sparks the thought given how the Symbiote and its spawn seem to be totally safe and cooperative with all their hosts why wasn't it more cooperative with Spider-man? What if the original Symbiote had reached a friendly and cooperative permanent bonding with Spider-man instead of being adversarial? When it came time to replicate would the Carnage Symbiote have bonded with Mary Mane instead and her become Spider-Woman fighting alongside her husband?
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Yes I read your post but the idea Conan isn't a > match for Captain America just doesn't work. > Conan started with the natural physical potential > that Steve Rogers required the Super-Soldier > formula to achieve. He's been shown maintaining > that peak physical condition for decades without > the help of anything but good genetics and > physical activity. As a brawny barbarian type > Conan's regularly engaged in some kind of physical > activity, whether surviving battles or the > wilderness. The idea that Conan's inferior to > Captain America just isn't so. I've read enough > of the novels and the official comics from Marvel > to know that they're equals. Well, let me ask you a few questions. Do you think Conan's endurance is equal to Cap's[as Cap does not fatigue]? Do you think that Conan is smarter than Cap? Do you not think that Caps' foes and combat experience has been on a higher level than Conan's? Physically they are close, but I just don't see it as a match? Lastly, do you think Conan would have been as successful at deflecting Super Patriot as Cap was, while losing only by a cheap technicality!? I think Conan would have flat out lost that fight! ____________________________________________ "POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE" |
