Nightmask Wrote:
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> Unfortunately it seems as if it's just about a
> given when you compare iconic characters of a
> particular level (In this case humans at the peak
> of human potential) fan favorite creeps in and
> they have trouble seeing how there isn't any hands
> down clear winner if they had to fight for some
> reason. Same thing happens in comparisons between
> Batman and Captain America. For Batman we hear
> 'he has all those mysterious martial arts he
> learned around the world, all Cap's got is boxing
> and wrestling and some gymnastics', Cap gets 'he
> has the Super-Soldier formula and that make him
> invincible' and Conan fans likely go by 'he's a
> brawny barbarian archtype and has that connection
> with primitive instincts that'll let him win over
> anything'.
>
> Going for the flip-side we've seen all three taken
> out by regular goons on various occasions, which
> if you go by the arguments used to say why one
> would defeat the others they'd never get captured
> by some flunky but they do. They operate at peak
> human but that doesn't make them unbeatable by any
> means. Plus the 'Cap has the SS-Formula'
> arguments tend to fall flat since other than
> turning a sickly weak human into peak human and
> letting him go without tiring longer than most and
> survive being frozen it doesn't give him any other
> real advantages. Most fights end long before the
> ability for those involved to get significantly
> tired or suffer the penalties of exhaustion to
> become relevant anyway.
Never turning away from a valid question I will try to address a few things. Though I agree with what Nightmask has said here, I must address what Capo asked first.
_Capo wrote-"Explain why Cap has the 'skill' to beat conan and not the other way around. I think plenty of examples have been given that Conan has beaten foes just as tough as foes Cap has beaten."
Cap's foes [in my opinion/clue#1] though tough have been equally powerful, yes, but many were smarter or more dangerous due to their craftiness and ambitions. Baron Zemo, Red Skull and Modok[who was superhuman]. Who in the modern era were near if not geniuses with the ability to predict probabilities and carry out extremely complex plans. Plans that include scenarios the world had not yet seen. Not to mention psionic powers Modok had that could kill[puncturing 2inch thick steel] or scan minds[not read them] to tell their frame of mind. He also faced superhumans such as Count Nefaria who possessed at times far more than class 100 strength, and a 100 times the powers of Whirlwind, Power Man and Living Laser! He [alone] faced trained soldiers and mercenaries [in groups/HYDRA & AIM]far more skilled than the average clod Conan faced in large numbers[the same could be said for Batman]. Most of these foes possessed long range weapons that Cap could deflect due to his shield, while Conan only had a sword and anything outside Cap's shield would disintegrate! He's faced foes that had cosmic powers like Skrulls,Korvac, Thanos, and the Beyonders Power in Doom. These are villains that match or top anything Conan has faced easily! He even tussled with Namor and earned his respect! Not to mention lifting Thor's hammer! Yes, Conan has faced similar foes in similar numbers, but not exactly in the same class!
_Capo wrote-"But for the Conan detractors, there aren't any examples offered of why Conan couldn't beat Cap, or any reasoning behind it other than 'Conan couldn't possibly have developed as far as Cap has'. Well what if he could have? What if the literary origins of the character have shown that he has developed just as well as Cap did? What then?"
Well, we've already been there as I and Punstarr said, it's different worlds & different physics! Or, it's a draw leaving a win to mere circumstance, as Nightmask said!
To address what Nightmask says, Cap is not invincible and "circumstance" [clue#2]as I have said now for too many posts can lead to his defeat! And though Conan is in his class of peek physical condition and may even be in his class when it comes to fighting and battle savy, I assert that his training and level of competition do not compare in class! Thus as an experienced fighter knows, with sufficient ability he can out class a younger stronger fighter! This is what I believe is the case with Cap. Not only are we considering ability, but I am considering training which Conan does not have in the degree that Cap has due to mere technology and convenience! Plus the amount of battle occasions and age make Conan less likely to win against an augmented human. Eventually Conan's biology must give way to age and thus reaction time, strength and endurance must slow and Caps[for what I know] does not! Say what you want, I'm not uneducated about Conan, nor am I in the dark about Cap. If you want to get the approval from me I give it "a draw" at BEST[conclusion-this is only resolvable by opinion]!! But the win GOES TO CAP[in my opinion]!! That's all I have to say.....8-)
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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
