Black Bolt's Cry: Truly CL1000?
Posted by Nightmask
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Oh, Stark does indeed have powers, via the Extremis nanites/technovirus in him. He can wirelessly access any computer or cell phone or satellite. It also lets him remotely control his armor(s) from up to 100 miles away, enhances his recovery time (not as good as, say, Logan's, but far better than your typical human), enhances his reaction time while connected to the armor (since the armor's operating system is directly tied to/is his nervous system), and he's used it to both mimic Spider-Man's spider-senses and fool Parker's spider-sense (both making it give false positives and blocking things from it).
Stranges' magic was the biggest thing that got me, since the Skrulls kicked out all their magic-users millennia ago (and they became the Dire Wraiths). --------------------- Be Ex/20 to one another!
You're neglecting the fact that Stark was only upgraded with the Extremis relatively recently and up until then he was totally human, just smart for a human. The Extremis itself isn't something you could consider a power per say either, it's more along the lines of cybernetic or bionic augmentation and not natural to him like the powers of Namor, Richards, Black Bolt, and Professor X. So when the Skrulls got to study Stark all they learned was normal human physiology to compare to his super-human companions and the relatively primitive level of human technology.
Well you know that Marvel anymore blows off continuity and changes history to suit whoever's running things, which includes ignoring that tidbit about skrulls and their dire wraith offshoot. Although admittedly I wouldn't mind seeing some 'normal' skrulls and 'eternal' skrulls show up after somehow managing to hide from their deviant brothers all these millenia. While the skrull deviants took over and dominated things they were an evolutionary dead-end who can only develop changes to their DNA now through artificial mutation or breeding with other compatible species (like the Kree). "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
I'm not neglecting that. Marvel is. The Super-Illuminati-Skrull was controlling tech from afar the same way Stark does. (At least, this is what I've heard; I have not personally seen the issue where "Black Bolt" revealed his true green colors and threw down with the other Illuminati.)
And calling Stark's tech "relatively primitive" may be wrong, too, at least in terms of his power armor. His power armor tech's possibly more advanced than anything the Skrull's had (how many suits of power armor have they been shown to have?). And why shouldn't the Extremis be considered a power? Is a superpower not "something normal people cannot do, some ability normal humans do not possess"? If I can fry a chicken at 20 paces (mmmm....), does it matter if the ability is from Mutant genes or a bionic implant? If it's not a power b/c it's not something he was born with, then strictly speaking Ricahrds Cosmic Ray-induced mutations aren't powers, either. And the (Deviant) Skrulls aren't an evolutionary dead-end, there have been Mutant Skrulls (who have some power other than Shapeshfting). Most were killed at birth, have been for millennia, but Apocalypse saved several a few years back (and Xavier later took them under his wing, as Cadre K). --------------------- Be Ex/20 to one another! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 06:02AM by Dr Archeville.
Dr Archeville Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not neglecting that. Marvel is. The > Super-Illuminati-Skrull was controlling tech from > afar the same way Stark does. (At least, this is > what I've heard; I have not personally seen the > issue where "Black Bolt" revealed his true green > colors and threw down with the other Illuminati.) > And calling Stark's tech "relatively primitive" > may be wrong, too, at least in terms of his power > armor. His power armor tech's possibly more > advanced than anything the Skrull's had (how many > suits of power armor have they been shown to > have?). That's something of an apples and oranges kind of question. Skrulls are a shapeshifting race that developed their technology around that and power armor as Stark uses would be stifling to a creature used to being able to shift their form to suit their needs. So they developed more flexible technologies but if they'd felt the need they could have certainly built better armor given their higher level of technology. During the period they were depowered it's quite possible they even did develop such power armor to compensate in the interim. > And why shouldn't the Extremis be considered a > power? Is a superpower not "something normal > people cannot do, some ability normal humans do > not possess"? If I can fry a chicken at 20 paces > (mmmm....), does it matter if the ability is from > Mutant genes or a bionic implant? If it's not a > power b/c it's not something he was born with, > then strictly speaking Ricahrds Cosmic Ray-induced > mutations aren't powers, either. I think we're having a disagreement on what we consider a power, at least in the case of the Illuminati Super-Skrull. First Stark was a normal human at the time the Skrulls had him as a prisoner with the rest, he had no powers to copy in the first place. Second the Extremis isn't some kind of feature of Stark's genes or body in the sense that the Skrulls would have scanned and replicated it as a power for a Super-Skrull knock-off of them. Extremis is as much an add-on to Stark as his power armor is and the Skrulls go copying powers inherent in the organism. > And the (Deviant) Skrulls aren't an evolutionary > dead-end, there have been Mutant Skrulls (who have > some power other than Shapeshfting). Most were > killed at birth, have been for millennia, but > Apocalypse saved several a few years back (and > Xavier later took them under his wing, as Cadre > K). Marvel actually has established the Skrulls as an Evolutionary dead end, same as the Kree (including featured in the annual for the X-men where Wolverine was killed but regenerated from his blood splashing on an ancient cosmic crystal that judged the worthiness of a race). The occasional writer might miss that point but skrulls are still pretty much a dead-end and require science to manage any kind of mutation via artificial means. They are no longer evolving and haven't in millenia. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
The only advanced area of tech I've seen from Skrulls (that pertains to power armor) is the fact that they have spacedrives (and the funky shapeshfiting handcuffs they used on Cap once, back when they were again trying to secretly invade Earth), and the power-beaming and teleportation satellites. I've seen no evidence of any sort of miniaturization techniques that Stark's armor has in spades (cramming a fighter jet's worth of tech into a wearable suit? That takes some doing). All I've seen from them in regards to power generation are big bulky things that wouldn't work for power armor, so Stark's got 'em beat there.
And would it really be so hard for the Illuminati-Skrull to have gotten a copy of the Extremis nanotech and used it on itself? (Stark cloned Thor from skin samples he took from when the Avengers hung out in his mansion; what's good for the goose....) That'd explain how he had those abilities -- it wasn't from the "Super-Skrull" treatment per se, but it was as a result of his spying on them for years. (And, again, that doesn't explain the magic... but then, blame Quesada ;) ) When/where has it been said the Skrulls are at an evolutionary dead-end like the Kree? I've honestly never heard that, though I do vaguely remember that story you mention. And if that's the case, they can't be having naturally-occurring Mutants, as you say... but they do, so they're not. (Another retcon, perhaps?) The bit about them "not changing" is b/c they kill any non-Deviant Skrull when it's born (until recently when, as I said, Apocalypse took the Mutant Skrulls). --------------------- Be Ex/20 to one another!
I'll back Nightmask up in terms of that the Skrulls are supposed to be at a genetic dead end in terms of evolution. I read that story with Wolverine as well, and the old OHTMU referenced the Skrulls as at a dead end, too. That said, they could still induce mutation, as with the Super Skrull, so I don't think any of the Skrulls have been natural mutants.
 
Well, then, it's another retcon, because there've been natural Mutant Skrulls in the X-Men comics within the past decade or so, during 2000's The Twelve arc, where Apocalypse had a bunch of Skrulls working for him including some Mutant ones, and during the 2001 Maximum Security story arc, where we saw that the group of Mutant Skrulls Xavier had been leading -- Cadre K -- had been fighting for the right for Mutant Skrulls to exist and not be killed at birth by the regular/Deviant Skrulls (done in the name of "racial purity"). It was contact with a Mutant Skrull (Z'Cann) that amplified Rogue's powers so she could 'recall' the abilities of anyone she'd ever absorbed (as seen in X-Treme X-Men).
--------------------- Be Ex/20 to one another!
Eh, I don't mind Skrulls being genocidal madmen seeking to keep themselves "pure" by killing off that which is different in them. Fits in well with the whole "metaphor for communists/terrorists" thing they've had ever since they were first introduced. (Plus, they're shaepshifters, so it's not inconceivable that their genome is unstable enough to allow Mutants to appear with some regularity.) Besides, there's already one "genetic dead end" in the MU (the Kree), there's not much need for another (unless Marvel decides to make Humans to be the only species with the potential for evolution).
Though, in a way, the Shapeshifting Deviant Skrulls are at an evolutionary dead end. Or, rather, have crossed an evolutionary finish line. What's the purpose of evolution? To make a species more able (or less unable) to live in a given environment. What environment's can't a species of shapeshifters who can turn into anything organic or inorganic adapt to? What more do they need? --------------------- Be Ex/20 to one another!
More like the introduction of mutant Skrulls is the retcon, not the concept that the skrulls are at an evolutionary dead-end as a species. Consider that comic-book evolution is NOT what we consider evolution. As is mentioned later evolution's 'purpose' is for an organism's species to adapt and become suited to its environment, comic book evolution sees evolution having a 'purpose' of advancing mental and physical evolution to virtual godhood. The deviant Skrulls, having supplanted the normal and eternal skrulls are a dead-end as their natural shape-shifting powers prevent them from evolving because they can as individuals shift to adapt to most environments (plus the Crystal from the X-men annual actually genetically locks a species that fails the judgement it makes based on the individuals of a species that come before it).
As far as Apocolypse goes any mutant skrulls he might have had working for him might have been simply created by him and passed off as mutants in order to gain sympathy from Professor X. Remember that just because that's what he was TOLD doesn't mean it was true. All the supposedly mutant Skrulls could have been the products of an elaborate deception of the Super-Skrull program. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Marvel has dozens of species at an evolutionary dead end (as depicted in the X-men annual for one), and with thousands of species seen so far having only one in that position is unrealistic. But the events of Kree-Sh'iar war and the Maximum-whatever storyarc have been retconned away using the lameness with Genis-Vell Marvel introduced in recent years. He was Marvel's excuse for a background reboot of main Marvel continuity to wipe out anything they thought they could get away with by having him change anything he didn't like after destroying and restarting existence. So the Ruul never existed and probably screwed with the Avengers Forever limited series and Forever Crystal as well. Considering he met Spider-man during his insane period I guess he rebooted Spider-man with a brain-malfunction and Mephisto with even greater power while he was at it.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Check out events during the Second Secret Wars where the skrulls lost their shapeshifting powers due to that genetic bomb, you'll see the use of a power armor that required someone with advanced control over their powers to utilize, as it functioned as a 3-dimensional matrix and micro-porous construction. Even with his plasticity Mr. Fantastic couldn't have entered into it to use it. Just because the Skrulls are more often shown using ships and guns doesn't mean that they don't have power armor for all sorts of deals in the background and just haven't been shown yet (like the power armor for that event).
It's a stretch for the Illuminati Skrull to be said to have Extremis since its based on the Illuminati when they were captured by the skrulls, Stark didn't have that until many years later. Just like while the original Super-Skrull was superior to the FF at the time of his creation he's quite inferior now because they've vastly increased in power since then whereas he hasn't (except with the occasional writer who can't comprehend that the FF were a lot weaker early on when the Skrulls copied them). Plus the Extremis thing isn't really plausible since Super-Skrulls are genetically enhanced and augmented and concept-wise doesn't go along with that as it's a techno-organic item that conflicts with the natural powers concept. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Yeah, that's what I meant, that the presence of Mutant Skrulls is a retcon. And is one that's here to stay, it seems. Again, I don't mind.
And I'll take the Mutant Skrulls saying they're Mutants at face value -- one of the rules of comicdom, anything shown/told you is true unless and until explicitly countered at some future point. --------------------- Be Ex/20 to one another!
It's not a stretch, though -- that Illuminati-Skrull was there spying on them the whole time, reporting back to it's masters. I say it's a stretch to say it wouldn't have reported the Extremis as soon as Stark got it, and a stretch for it not to take a sample for itself as soon as it had the opportunity. And as far as I know it's never been said the Skrulls are exclusively about innate genetic-based powers, they'd just as happily take any advantage they can get.
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