Black Bolt's Cry: Truly CL1000?

Hopefully, Black Velvet would be shocked by the Human Torch's instant incineration of [city population density per square mile x 20] puny humans, and let him fall to his death.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

So you think the Torch's Nova Flame should be more like Class 3000 damage then?

It's already established in the rulebooks that the surface of a star (10,000 degrees) is Class 1000. 1 million degrees is 100 times that temperature. The core of a star is more like 27 million degrees... is that then Class 5000? 1 million is far closer to 27 million than 10,000 is to 1 million. If you really want to get down to it, that would mean 27,000 degrees is likely Class 5000 intensity, while 10,000 degrees is (already established) Class 1000. It's likely that anything from 1 million to just short of star core temperature (27 million) is Class 3000, while 27 million and up is class 5000.

The question is whether we want to give the Torch Class 3000 damage capacity.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 06:29PM by Punstarr.

10,000 F degree heat would melt through 2 feet of solid tungsten in a round.

;)

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

*The question is whether we want to give the Torch Class 3000 damage capacity.*

I'd say no, because a Class 1000 line stream of heat / fire projected power is imminently
less destructive than an area effect blast that sends this same level of energy in a cone path, or even in every direction (spherical) at the same time.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

Do you see my point, though?

Again, what's a city made of? Glass, steel, reinforced concrete, aluminum, bits of lead and plastic piping, copper wiring, rubber, fleshy puny humans, etc. And underneath, bedrock to crust and mantle layers of the Earth.

In the aggregrate, the average strongest material the Human Torch's Class 1000 spherical effect nova flame blast will have to pass through (and keep going, downshifting damage accordingly) is Incredible material.

Appreciate the damage of a Class 1000 spherical area effect blast.

Respect it.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

Physics geek answer (I looked it up with my Typical reason and Computers: Google Talent...)

<i>According to the book "The First 3 Minutes" by Steven Weinberg, we can make a crude estimate that the temperature of 100 million million million million million (1032) degrees K was reached some 10-43 second after the beginning of the Universe. Measurements of the cosmic microwave background radiation allow us to determine the temperature of the universe today. The brightness of the relic radiation is measured as a function of the radio frequency. To an excellent approximation it is described by a thermal of blackbody distribution with a temperature of 2.735 degrees above absolute zero. This is a dramatic and direct confirmation of one of the predictions of the Hot Big Bang model.

On a laboratory scale, a plasma temperature of 348 million degrees K had been achieved in a tokamak vessel.

It is not possible to measure very high temperature directly because measuring devises will just "disappear" at these temperatures. What is measured is the brightness distribution of the radiating body -- by fitting a Planck curve to it, the temperature can be determined.</i>

So "absolute zero" is Class 5000 cold, and "absolute melt the universe back into a cubic Planck-length sized kernel of a primordial cosmic egg which will then explode into another barely featured, young and forming universe a nano-second later from a new Big Bang" is Class 5000 hot.

;)

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 07:20PM by The Beyonders.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone listing the Human Torch at CL1000 levels of damage for his Nova blast, he's powerful but not that powerful. At those levels he would have melted Ultron during the Secret Wars and even inflicted damage on Galactus.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Well it's not likely he'd be doing such an attack (or her for that matter) except to stop a world-threatening event.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

He would have melted Ultron with a *yellow FEAT roll*

;)

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

Giving either Black Bolt OR The Human Torch CL1000+ damage, or much of anyone else for that matter, just isn't plausible. Neither would so much as scratch someone like Galactus, Kubik, or the Celestials. Same goes with Thor. He simply doesn't have CL1000 damage potential, let along CL3000 level. If he did he would have been far more of a threat to the celestial Exitar than he was, heck he destroyed his hammer just to crack the relatively flimsy casing around its so-called brain. Just lucky for him the Celestials were nice enough to reassemble it for him, and does make you wonder about the what-if worlds where they didn't.

There's also the problem of comparisons of Relative intensities, as the surface of a star is a massive area boiling at ten thousand degrees fahrenheit, far more energy overall when compared to a smaller area more compact area at higher temperatures. It's all about the kinetic energy (in the end that's all that heat is represented as, molecules moving faster and beating against one another to transfer that energy to something else) stored in the atoms and how many you're looking at. The Human Torch generates an extremely high energy pulse of short duration, stars on the other hand are a sustained duration at lower individual energy level per atom.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Just tell me this... how can the Torch's Nova Blast be 1 million degrees and be Shift Z when 10,000 degrees has long been established as Class 1000?

The Torch couldn't melt Ultron except maybe on a Red feat, he's not a cosmic class fire generator like Firelord or Nova.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

True...

*With great power comes great responsibility...*

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

You get the point though. Human Torch's nova flame blast does Class 1000 fire / heat damage, but since it's a spherical area effect at that intensity rather than a targeted and focused stream / beam, it's pretty much down to *omnidirectionally* applied "break through stuff" rules, which would require a yellow FEAT to directly melt Ultron's Class 1000 Adamantium casing, but just green to penetrate the weak points (Shift Y) enough to melt his innards...

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

What difference does it really make, except in some exotic or weird situation where you've encased the Human Torch in a box of Class 3000 material so he can't burn anybody?

Class 1000 spherical area effect damage, downgraded by damage intensity by materials it intervenes with in areas it passes through (average Incredible material) will still incinerate 20 square miles of a city environment.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

Exactly.

The Torch's Nova Flame is not a continuous field of super fusion-heated plasma like the sun's surface that you'd take damage from every round (he *can* extend his flame sheath into an continuously fueled and burning field engulfing a single spherical area around him in my write-ups, but this only does Unearthly damage to anything within it / entering it...)

Torch's Nova Flame is like a tactical nuke. One time quick burst of opening up the bottled sunshine for one round is devastating enough.

The infernoes of materials left burning in the Nova Flame blast wake spread the damage further until fire departments and super-human efforts contain the blaze, but these fires are fueled by the ignited materials, not Human Torch himself.

Class 1000 levels for this Nova Flame spherical area blast wave is appropriate, and consistent with the comics.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

I would say yes, it is Class 1000. I know it isn't canon, but he effectively saves the Earth in Earth X. His scream is so powerful that it resonates across the universe and allows him to summon Galactus. Keep in mind his scream is pure energy, it isn't sound (no air in space), it just comes out of his maw so we call it a scream. It's pure energy, and when he unleashes it in an atmosphere it manifests as sound.

Earth X wasn't exactly Marvel 616-ish. BB's scream is vocal / sound / vibration oriented.

That's why even his "whisper" is devastating.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

Uh no Black Bolt's cry is definitely vibrational in nature, in fact at least one of the scenes for him has shown him using his cry on someone near the boundary between the Blue Area of the moon and pure vacuum in order to dampen the destructive range of his powers. It's because his powers are tied to the speech centers of his brain so speaking results in uncontrolled use of his powers.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread