Black Bolt's Cry: Truly CL1000?

Given the discussion in the Discussion forum regarding Black Bolt's cry vs Superman I think there needs to be some thought as to whether or not Black Bolt's attack truly is a CL1000 power/attack. Does he really rate an attack that in game terms is a cosmic-level power or at least treated as such by nearly everyone.

If you look back over the published materials you'll see that there are multiple characters who were originally given CL1000 powers or abilities at first publication and later revised downward, in some cases significantly. Binary for example was originally shown having CL1000 Strength and Endurance and Graviton at CL1000 level gravity control. I think Black Bolt's rank is one of those areas where they simply didn't revise him down to 'just' Shift Z rank for his damage levels at full power, rather than leave him at CL1000.

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Hello Nightmask,

I have to say I whole heartedly agree with you. After some research in both various write-ups, comics and discussions I would stat his "scream" at the Shift-Z in intensity. this technically puts it on par with a tactical nuke. The evidence for this is in his history as he nearly destroyed his entire homecity as a child. Second, he has displayed the ability or been quoted as saying he can destroy a small mountain with full exertion of his powers. Whether this is hyperbole or not there is no denying he could cause massive damage to a mountain. Thus I would rate it at Shift-Z(500) with an area effect of 25-35 areas. The first ten at Shift-Z, the second ten at Shift-Y, the third ten at Shift-X, and the final five areas at Unearthly. I think this would sufficiently explain his power levels. What say you?

Sounds reasonable, and brings him down to a more in-game appropriate power level. Funny how with so many who like to complain about characters getting CL1000 powers or abilities and want to 'knock them down' to where they feel it's okay they keep Black Bolt with a cosmic level of damage potential. After all Rules-Wise at CL1000 level he could even harm Galactus.

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The problem here is that if Black Bolt's voice is a "mere" Shift Z damage, then likewise the Human Torch's Nova Flame should be dropped to Shift Y or even Shift X. There's no way his Nova Flame is even close to Black Bolt's voice.

Since when? I don't see where there is any correlation between Black Bolt and the Human Torch's max level attacks that you have to slide the one down if you lower the other. That sounds more like 'well he's so powerful no one else can do damage like he does so if he gets lowered everyone else has to get lowered more so he remains on top' reasoning which just doesn't fly. Black Bolt simply has the benefit of inflicting his damage over a greater range than the Human Torch as the environment is doing a better job soaking up his heat output than the vibrational output of Black Bolt.

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While I agree that you cannot power other characters down just to keep others on top...there does have to be some form of relative power levels.

Someone stated recently that Black Bolt was the third most powerful hero on Marvel Earth. With Hulk at Second and the Sentry holding the first position.

If we use that for our reference, we have to question the write ups relative to one another. The write up for Sentry, as we have discussed before, is incomplete and perhaps a bit under powered. According to his stats and powers, he is weaker than Hulk and Black Bolt. I'm just making the point that there are times when you can disover the stats by comparing and contrasting each characters influence on one another and reality.

Also, there is much more to a character that his ability to do damage. As has been said before, having a Class 1000 rank power doesn't make a character overpowered. While Black Bolt could potentially harm Galactus in terms of that he does more damage than the later has Body Armor. It would never "realistically" happen. Galactus could blink and send Black Bolt to an unhappy place, or just negate his powers.

My point is just that being able to do big damage is not the end all ability. Doesn't matter if it is Class 1000 or Shift-Z. What say you?

TLD

No, dude. There's a huge difference between the Torch's Nova Flame and Black Bolt's scream. Black Bolt has always been canonically more powerful. -Always-. To suddenly say they both have the same damage capacity is ludicrous. Torch < Black Bolt. If anything I'd be willing to accept Black Bolt's scream dealing Shift Z 900, but if he gets dropped to 500, no way should the Torch's output remain at 500.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 03:41PM by Punstarr.

I really just can't go along with that, not when the Torch's nova flame is equal to a low-yield nuclear detonation clearing more than one million degrees fahrenheit. To say he MUST be only Shift X because he has to be ranked weaker than Black Bolt is just not reasonable. If the general consensus is that CL1000 and up is cosmic level power/damage then Black Bolt isn't cosmic and must be Shift Z range at best.

It doesn't diminish Black Bolt's impressive abilities in the comics or in the game to have him at Shift Z level and he's still a power few mortal creatures would wish to combat if they have any clue what he can do.

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Yet by default, you're essentially saying that the Torch is equal to Black Bolt in numerical damage... something I do not agree with, and the comics have never supported.

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

Hello All,

I have to say that in my opinion this "sliding scale" theory is a rather convenient way of keeping favorite or mainstream charachters perched at the top. Just because initial statics were stated differently does not mean over time that they cannot be revised as powere levels in comics frequently increase or decrease.Likewise adjusting one charachter does not by default mean you should adjust another charachter. If this was the case then a single revision would mean an entire write-up alteration for the entire Marvel/DC universe. I prefer to do a thorough complete research and analysis when stating charchters or NPC and let the facts determine where the ranks lie, not biases. Now getting to Blackbolts question of being depowered to Shift-Z does not mean that the Human Torches should be reduced to Shift-Y or Shift-X. The OHOTMU states that the Torches "nova" effect is approximate to 1 MILLION degrees Fahernheit. I would stat that at Class 1000. In addition, the Torches scope is far less than Blackbolts. I believe various write-ups have the damage from Torches "nova" ranging from doing Class 1000 damage to anything within 1 area, Shift-Z damage out to 3 areas, Shift-Y damage to 5 areas, and Unearthly damage out to 7 areas. So, just because you adjust one charachter does not mean you need to adjust another. What say you?

Hello All,

I have to say that in my opinion this "sliding scale" theory is a rather convenient way of keeping favorite or mainstream charachters perched at the top. Just because initial statics were stated differently does not mean over time that they cannot be revised as powere levels in comics frequently increase or decrease.Likewise adjusting one charachter does not by default mean you should adjust another charachter. If this was the case then a single revision would mean an entire write-up alteration for the entire Marvel/DC universe. I prefer to do a thorough complete research and analysis when stating charchters or NPC and let the facts determine where the ranks lie, not biases. Now getting to Blackbolts question of being depowered to Shift-Z does not mean that the Human Torches should be reduced to Shift-Y or Shift-X. The OHOTMU states that the Torches "nova" effect is approximate to 1 MILLION degrees Fahernheit. I would stat that at Class 1000. In addition, the Torches scope is far less than Blackbolts. I believe various write-ups have the damage from Torches "nova" ranging from doing Class 1000 damage to anything within 1 area, Shift-Z damage out to 3 areas, Shift-Y damage to 5 areas, and Unearthly damage out to 7 areas. So, just because you adjust one charachter does not mean you need to adjust another. What say you?

Hello All,

I have to say that in my opinion this "sliding scale" theory is a rather convenient way of keeping favorite or mainstream charachters perched at the top. Just because initial statics were stated differently does not mean over time that they cannot be revised as powere levels in comics frequently increase or decrease.Likewise adjusting one charachter does not by default mean you should adjust another charachter. If this was the case then a single revision would mean an entire write-up alteration for the entire Marvel/DC universe. I prefer to do a thorough complete research and analysis when stating charchters or NPC and let the facts determine where the ranks lie, not biases. Now getting to Blackbolts question of being depowered to Shift-Z does not mean that the Human Torches should be reduced to Shift-Y or Shift-X. The OHOTMU states that the Torches "nova" effect is approximate to 1 MILLION degrees Fahernheit. I would stat that at Class 1000. In addition, the Torches scope is far less than Blackbolts. I believe various write-ups have the damage from Torches "nova" ranging from doing Class 1000 damage to anything within 1 area, Shift-Z damage out to 3 areas, Shift-Y damage to 5 areas, and Unearthly damage out to 7 areas. So, just because you adjust one charachter does not mean you need to adjust another. What say you?

Class 1000 area (volume) effect damage would blow a chunk out of a mountain side (Incredible material bedrock at its most dense points) of around a cubic half-mile in size.

Yeah, Black Bolt has Class 1000 potty mouth.

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

<i>My point is just that being able to do big damage is not the end all ability. Doesn't matter if it is Class 1000 or Shift-Z. What say you?</i>

Class 1000 damage will bust a hole through a 10 foot thick wall of Unearthly material big enough to walk through.

Shift-Z damage will only bust through 5 feet, so the effort to tunnel through the 10 feet of Unearthly material takes 2 rounds.

;)

Those levels of damage as area effects usually are wrecking environments where the top material strengths it hits of the stationary type (reinforced concrete and steel buildings, bedrock, etc.) is around Incredible, so the damage downgrades by that much per area from the epicenter of the impact as it destroys the surroundings.

If you're going to wreck the planet, do it right.

:)

-----
"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse

*The OHOTMU states that the Torches "nova" effect is approximate to 1 MILLION degrees Fahernheit. I would stat that at Class 1000. In addition, the Torches scope is far less than Blackbolts. I believe various write-ups have the damage from Torches "nova" ranging from doing Class 1000 damage to anything within 1 area, Shift-Z damage out to 3 areas, Shift-Y damage to 5 areas, and Unearthly damage out to 7 areas. So, just because you adjust one charachter does not mean you need to adjust another. What say you?*

If Johnny Storm were to use his Nova Flame blast while airborne over a city, he could maximize the area destruction he could do (like an airburst tactical nuke) by not forcing the damage to be downgraded as the blast wave passes through areas via utter disintegration.

If you plot out the potential damage at ground level (assumes damage is passing through intervening materials / targets) and continue the ratio of damage downgrades all the way down to Shift Zero, like so:

ground zero area = Class 1000 damage

3 area radius from ground zero = Shift Z damage

5 area radius from ground zero = Shift Y damage

7 area radius from ground zero = Unearthly damage

9 area radius from ground zero = Amazing damage

11 area radius from ground zero = Remarkable damage

13 area radius from ground zero = Good damage

15 area radius from ground zero = Poor damage

You now have a circle of damage from ground zero with a circumference of 100 areas, a diameter of 32 areas, and a surface area torching of around 804 square areas (20 square miles set on fire, everything in the outer ring of areas around the circumference 2 areas deep recieving Poor fire damage, easily enough to start flashfires with any paper, rubber, plastics, etc. in those areas.)

Have fun doing this as an airburst effect (just make sure there's a character that can survive the blast there to catch you when you exhaust Human Torch's true potential and "flame out" and fall to an inglorious death in the burning crater)

-----
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1 million degrees is very much an exaggeration. The surface of the sun is "only" 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit or so, which is described in the judge's handbook as Class 1000. Shall we do some research and find out what would happen to the Earth if temperatures of 1 million degrees were suddenly introduced to our atmosphere? I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be pretty.

Regardless, if 10,000 degrees is Class 1000, what's 1 million? Beyond? It just doesn't work. I'm sure his Nova Flame is under 10,000 degrees.

No I'm quite sure it's a million degrees because there's no way he could do the damage he's done in the past at anywhere close to ten thousand and you certainly don't burn down the entire length of a 30+ story skyscraper at even one hundred thousand.

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I'd make sure Black Velvet was there, she'd survive the nova blast just fine thanks to her copies of his powers and catch him in plenty of time to save the day. :)

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 12:22PM by Nightmask.

Considering the surface of the sun is 10,000... I'd say that's a lot hotter than you think. Considering the melting point of tungsten is 6,192 degrees F and nothing else in the real world has a higher melting point, and considering 10,000 degrees is well past that point, I would say that it's a -whole- lot hotter than you think. A million is ridiculous. It would devastate our atmosphere... probably trigger some sort of dangerous reaction.

If a nuclear device doesn't devastate the atmosphere and lay waste the entire planet with the nuclear fusion reaction of a Hydrogen bomb which brings the millions of degrees of heat in the _core_ of the sun to the surface of the planet it's a basely suggestion that the Human Torch unleashing his Nova Flame attack would destroy NYC or the entire Eastern seaboard. It's a point source for just a few seconds of one million degree temperatures, with millions of tons of material around it to soak up the heat as it disperses into the environment.

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