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Posted by The Rook
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What are the costs, if any, for beginning with power stunts, or are starting power stunts disallowed?
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
That seems a bit expensive to pay triple the cost to just get a 2CS bonus, since it'd seem like the extra detection options and such would be inherent in having the talent at any expense level.
Something I also forgot to add into my question on talents, what about talents that carry perks, are those perks allowed? For example, Heir to Fortune and Business/Finance allow for a set starting resource rank (Remarkable and Good respectively), and others come with free contacts in a particular field. Do we still get those perks for buying those talents that have them? "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Michael,
First off, thanks for your interest in my game! :) Hold on a moment would it not work if you made it so that at the second time the talent was acquired the +whatever to avoiding it such as the Forge figuring out Iron Man's projector thing because though it's a good plan the way you have it set up most players think "What can I get out of this now?" So, in essence give them the boost at two and then up it at three because you don't have to be world class to know what your doing better that most other idiots in the world Your concept is a good one and it would probably work well. The reason I've chosen not to break the +2CS barrier with talents really stems from my attempt to preserve game balance. To my mind, any ability that gives you +3CS crosses the border from being a Talent into being a Power. If I allowed that kind of bonus at the price of 30CP...who would need to buy Powers? Consider this (an example...follow the logic more than the statistics themselves): an Championship-caliber Heavyweight Boxer has Excellent 20 Fighting. He goes into training and buys Martial Arts B. Now he's Fighting at Remarkable 30. After a few dates with his girlfriend (Karma gain), he decides to buy it again. Now he's at Incredible 40. He lead his Boy Scout Troop on a few camp-outs, then buys it a third time. Now, he's up at the Amazing level...which means he can fight nearly as well as Wolverine (with the ole' Canucklehead's own bonuses). I think I'd rather keep the cap at +2CS. That's a big enough bonus, to my mind. The Rook P.S.--> Read my response to Nightmask's question related to this further down the thread. It touches on a few things surrounding your question.
Nightmask,
That seems a bit expensive to pay triple the cost to just get a 2CS bonus, since it'd seem like the extra detection options and such would be inherent in having the talent at any expense level. At the risk of sounding cavalier, it doesn't seem expensive to me at all, compared to the cost of buying a Power to get the same effect. :) That being said, I knew that as soon as I posted the Forge analogy, it was something of a bad example--something you touched on in your "inherent in having the talent" comment. Instead, let's use the "Boxer and Martial Arts B" analogy I mentioned above (in my reply to Michael).... Talent Bought Once: Our hero, Little Mac, now has a legitimate advantage over his opponent Glass Joe. Assuming all things are equal, he's landing a raw average of 5% more blows to him (by virtue of his +1CS bonus)...which means he's going to win 9 out of 10 fights against him in a typical match; Talent Bought Twice: See above. Talent Bought Thrice: Glass Joe doesn't stand a chance. Little Mac is peppering him a full 10% more often than Joe can reply. That spells "first round knockout". Furthermore, Mac's superior boxing skills have allowed him to see that Joe drops his left glove when he goes to his combinations. In the next round, Mac can either expect a +1CS to BLOCKING if he chooses, or a +1CS to Damage, if he chooses to try and exploit the weakness. After the match, noticing his astonishing pugilistic skill, a representative from McDonald's contacts his agent, offering to name a sandwich after him.... Heh heh...puns aside, THAT's what a world-class Talent can buy you. And probably a better example. Something I also forgot to add into my question on talents, what about talents that carry perks, are those perks allowed? For example, Heir to Fortune and Business/Finance allow for a set starting resource rank (Remarkable and Good respectively), and others come with free contacts in a particular field. Do we still get those perks for buying those talents that have them? Lord, do I hate the Heir to Fortune Talent. But that being said, I don't block it from players, either. It's a 2-Slot Talent, to be sure, but it's available for use. Just make sure it's appropriately reflected in your character's history...and always remember to keep in mind the sage advice of the Notorious BIG: "Mo money, mo' problems". The Rook P.S.--> Did I just really quote Biggie Smalls??? :(
I don't think I've ever seen anyone allowed to specialize like that for a Fighting Talent, only for the Scientific and some of the Professional talents. The closest I've seen is for Weapon Specialization outside the Scientific and Professional settings.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Actually wouldn't Ultimate Skill be cheaper overall? 10 points for a particular skill to go with it, and I'd think around 30 for the Ultimate Skill with it's set rank of Unearthly in the skill you're boosting (overcharging for it results in characters going for some overly inflated Fighting ranks to compensate, whereas with the Ultimate skill + Fighting talent they get the benefits of higher rank use without the higher health and overall proficiency).
I guess I should have been more clear though I was thinking only in terms of specializing in a scientific talent and hadn't even had the other categories in mind when I asked. 15 CP spent on Computers for example makes you superb with computer-related stuff with that +3CS but you're 10 CP less spending it on FASERIP or powers or contacts. You can end up specialized in a few scientific talents but at the serious expense of everything else. Specialization is great but for the player going that route he does sacrifice flexibility to be the best at what he does. Similar to how David E. Martin pointed out in my question on Hyper-Intelligence versus Hyper-Invention that the straight intelligence boost made for a DaVinci-like Renaissance man able to handle many fields whereas Hyper-Invention made you an Edison-like expert in just technology. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask,
Actually wouldn't Ultimate Skill be cheaper overall? 10 points for a particular skill to go with it, and I'd think around 30 for the Ultimate Skill with it's set rank of Unearthly in the skill you're boosting (overcharging for it results in characters going for some overly inflated Fighting ranks to compensate, whereas with the Ultimate skill + Fighting talent they get the benefits of higher rank use without the higher health and overall proficiency). Nope. Because I don't charge 40CP for Ultimate Skill. Ultimate Skill be a 2-Slot Power, in my opinion (too much bang for the buck, otherwise). You'd be looking at a solid 70CP for it (before you even say it: it's sort of an arbitrary number, I know, but that's where I would put it in my greater scheme of things...remember, we're using UPB Powers primarily...anything outside of that doesn't strictly fit the point-buy system and I have to "shoehorn" it in). Solid power, for sure. Even better than having the x3 Talent, definitely. But not cheaper. The Rook
TLD,
We'll be using the Advanced Rules version. I have had a discussion with another possible member of our group in reference to the rules: my preference is to use the published rules manuals (in lieu of unofficial books such as the Skycutter's modified Ultimate Powers Book). In that fashion, there is a common (and commonly-accepted) ground for everyone's understanding of the rules of play. Yes, before anyone asks, that DOES sound somewhat contradictory, coming from someone using a point-buy system for character creation. But in the words of Walt Whitman (from "Song of Myself" ): "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)" ;) The Rook [edited to remove unintentional smiley] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 03:33AM by The Rook.
As a suggestion for some possible add-ons for that, you could consider allowing for a karma-cost free point increase to an ability or power where someone clears a red feat while using it to simulate a certain measure of growth that fits with the idea that you should be growing in what you're working the most. There was a similar reference in one of the game modules for the Nightmares of Futures Past series of giving out Fighting rank increases due to some intense combat training in the third module. Red feats aren't that common so odds are it'd only come up rarely but still allow for a bit of advancement without some of the ungodly levels of karma required for the higher ranks.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Contradictory? Not at all dude. Point buy systems are used to create uniformity for a specific campaign and moderate the character creation when the Judge can't be right at the table with you. I'm not a fan of point buy systems of creation at all (in fact I hate them), but in this case it does do the job.
I'm glad we're playing with the original rule set. Too many house rules and special edition net books can separate the players. Not everyone is used to playing with the newer stuff (even though it may be better), so keeping with what we grew up with is a smart move. The Last Duskblade Q-Class Forever!!!
*nods* Just a suggestion, in case it's found to be useful never hurts to toss them out.
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Hmmm.....I think I may know who it is. (I'm having a vision) ::!o
Good to know we are on track and people are excited about the game. This may have been covered but......when and where do you want to start game play? The Last Duskblade Q-Class Forever!!! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 04:11AM by The Last Duskblade.
TLD,
I think you know, too! I agree that it's good to know that there's some interest and we're getting close. I wish I could say that I had a couple more players that I had confidence in, but the two or three that we have will definitely suffice for now. Quality over quantity, as they say. As for game play itself...I mentioned that it will take place in a Yahoo! Groups format. What I have not mentioned is that when I am e-mailed an approved character sheet from a player, I reply with the link to that group. Information on game play then takes place strictly on that page (one-stop shopping, as it were). The Rook
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