Thoughts on Spider-climb

Anyone (else) ever think about how Spider-climb really works? With conventional climbing you're actually putting the weight onto the fingers and toes as pressure against the bones and tendons, but with Spider-climb instead of pressure against the skin you're climbing smooth surfaces with all the weight pulling against the surface of the skin on the fingers and toes. Imagine how durable the flesh has to be to prevent the skin from just ripping off under those conditions? How often for example do we see Spider-man (the one hero most if not the only one thought of when it comes to this power) supporting tons on the side of a building using this power, or a floor or wall tearing off when whatever he's trying to hold something too powerful back.

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with Spider man and the radioactive spider bite that he recieved. It enhances his overall bio-structure. This I believe is on all the way down to the dna level.

Thus his ability to hold up a couple of tons on one side and hold onto a steel cable on the other.

It's considerably more than that, when you think about exactly what tiny fraction of his body actually supports all that weight, especially when he's carrying other objects. If you superglue your hand to something and pull it with that kind of strength you'd rip the skin off or worse. You almost have to consider him to have a low-level version of Body Resistance in the Typical or Good range to reflect that, especially as it'd also cover him having all that 'Spider-Endurance' and such that they hype, even though Spiders have exoskeletons and humans have endo-skeletons. You'd almost have to require him to have a measure of skin armor to reflect that mimicking of an exoskeleton.

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On the same note, how does Giant Man stand up? His bones don't increase in material strength, but he's tons of pounds heavier.

Comic book physics.

TAG

Three words: Suspension Of Disbelief.

The bones do grow in size though in proportion to his new height, and even the RPG rules note that the effective material strength increases the thicker something is, up to a point, so his larger bones can support more weight at the same time.

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Giant Man also has a limit, that if he were to grow larger than, would cause him a severe injury.

Looking at Spiderman, I have always thought he would have to have some body resistance or armor. I can break a board with my hand but if you hit me over the head with cinderblock, I would need a doctor. Spidey punches down walls and gets hit with strength equal to a five story fall.
A little resistence would make sense.

Spiderclimb or Wallclimb is one of those powers that is actually a couple different powers with a similar effect.
In the simplest form, the body exudes a material that enables the hero to cling effortlessly to the wall or ceiling. In Spider-Man's case, as shown in the film, his epidermis extended millions of tiny velcro-like barbs as needed. These barbs then penetrated and held onto whatever surface Spider-man was traversing.
The thing is, this is strictly a surface contact. Using a power like this, Spider-man should only be able to traverse fairly durable surfaces. And it begs the question of how strong these micro-babrbs are-- could the movie Spider-man be stymied by a polished steel wall?
And of course gravity remains in effect. If Spider-Man were to attempt to cross a ceiling incable of supporting his 180-lb mass, Spider-Man and the chunk of ceiling would fall to the floor.

Another common physical rationalization for Wallimbing is the hero's body exudes a subtle contact adhesive that momentarily lets the body part gain firm contact with the wall or ceiling. When the hero flexes whatever body part was in contact, a second epidermal chemical instantly dissolves the bond.

A third technique uses the skin's pores as tiny suction cups. When the hand, foot, buttock, or whatever is pressed against a surface, epidermal contraction activates tens of thousands of tiny air pumps. Air presure then holds the body part firm to the surface until the hero relaxes, air is returned to the pores, and air pressure releases the hold.

Of course, like the micro-barb technique, the hero is still subject to gravity and weak structural strengths.

A more advanced power involves the hero actually manipulating gravity. The body redirects gravity down through the body, with "down" being defined as the direction of the hero's feet or hands. With this power, the hero moves effortlessly across the vertical or inverted surface as if walking along a floor.

As I wrote months ago, drop-panel ceilings would present an annoying barrier to Wall-climbers. In the first three cases cited above, the unwary Wall-climber would fidn the ceiling panels break from the stress of supporting his weight. Wall-climber and gypsum board fragments would fall to the floor.
In the fourth case cited above, the panels would still break, but in this case the Wall-climber would fall UP toward the true ceiling. It would be like falling through thin ice on a shallow pond.
An advanced practioner of this fourth interpretation could probably redirect moe of his personal gravity to ameliorate the stress on weak surfaces. Say, 20% of his weight was directed into the actual surface and the other 80% was redirected laterally along that wall or ceiling (down, left, right, forward, back).

I'm still trying to figure out the meta-mechanics behind yet another power that could have this effect. In this case, the hero can literally reshape the immediately-surrounding reality to match whatever effect he needs. Its kinda based on Ditko's SHADE THE CHANGING MAN. More on this when I get it figured out.

Wow thanks for the contribution to this thread, the thoughts and feedback are much appreciated. Only one error though; Spider-man doesn't climb surfaces like the movie version. It was established a long time ago (and reprinted in his post-death/rebirth write-up) that he climbs surfaces by generating some wierd field that suppresses the repulsive force between the electrons in his skin and whatever he's trying to climb, causing the atoms to attrack to one another instead of be repelled by natural same-charge repulsion. It's why we can occasionally see him declare he could climb a wall of teflon if he wanted to (if someone ever built such a wall for some reason). It's also why wearing clothing doesn't block the power like it would climbing hairs in the movie (likely added because it was 'cool' and easier to get across to non-comic viewers than the more complicated physics-based method).

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Okay, I was unaware of that official modification of his powers.
So Spider-Man has moved from the initial power of contact adhesion ot the more advanced form of Gravity redirection.
Still bet he can't cross a drop-panel ceiling, though!

Hmmmm? No he doesn't do gravity manipulation, it's more related to the Bonding power with the way it causes the atoms to want to stick together, although either way yes they've had humor on more than one occasion of drop-ceilings really screwing his day up, often right when he's bragging about his ability to an opponent. Since his power of Spider-climb is in the electrical field it did leave him vulnerable to Electro when Electro realized it and used his mastery of electricity to negate his power temporarily.

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Static Cling......
Geez, there was an obvious gap in the UPB! And it's not like I hadn't rubbed dozens of balloons and stuck them on walls in the prior decades......

*laughs and nods* I suppose you could define it like that, he just gets the impossibly powerful super-hero version of it. I know little tiny hairs would never work, especially when he runs around in a total coverage bodystocking they'd never get through whereas his suppression field will work, just to a lesser degree, through his costume.

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Not meaning to get in on this so late. But I must concur with Nightmask on Spiderman's ability to wall-climb. Though DEM you have an articulate and complex understanding of Comic Physics! Definately to be respected.

Still, Nightmask brought up that with that power must come some form of resistance to injury. DEM also mentioned that it is a combination of powers that allow for this and I agree! His flesh is about as durable as the exoskeleton of a Spider would need to be at that size. And much like the movie he can take hits from metal weapons and get thrown through brick walls with little or no breaks in his skin. Even a near point blank explosion tore more of his mask than his face. This is not entirely different from the books. And is likely the reason his flesh does not tear from his fingers as he climbs or when he is pulled from a wall, rather the wall breaks away! Now that's strong!

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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

I dunno. Based on how tough they made him in Spider-Man 3 (the bomb to the face comes readily to mind), you'd think his flesh would be strong enough to deflect bullets. Spidey can't do that. Bullets will pierce his flesh easily.

You could always chalk it up to his (In) Endurance stat.

TAG

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dunno. Based on how tough they made him in
> Spider-Man 3 (the bomb to the face comes readily
> to mind), you'd think his flesh would be strong
> enough to deflect bullets. Spidey can't do that.
> Bullets will pierce his flesh easily.

Hmm, pierce his flesh easily, huh?! Not sure I would go as far as to say that his flesh would be strong enough to deflect bullets from that bomb scene or any in the movies or the books! I mean he was clearly messed up and bloody! Not sure if it's cause of what TAG says as I don't know RPG stats. But it could be argued he barely missed all the lethal pieces of shrapnel!!

As far as bullets go, different caliber guns will do different things to the body and Spidey's resistance is no different! Though the infamous HOMU does not explicitly say I would go as far as to say that distance and caliber of gun would decide whether or not he could deflect bullets. He has taken full on hits from the Rhino, Doc Oc, Electro, and Venom! Each have been known to crush steel and crumble cement with their hits! This kinetic impact has to be equal to a gun shot of smaller calibers at certain distances.

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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

Those are the same bombs that atomized groups of men in the first movie, though. Realistically, it's a matter of how tough the flesh is... and if the flesh is tough enough to resist that bomb with minimal visible damage, it should be tough enough to deflect bullets (a much lower damage). Yet as well all know, in the comics he can't do that. I'm saying it's a huge contradiction in the movies.

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those are the same bombs that atomized groups of
> men in the first movie, though. Realistically,
> it's a matter of how tough the flesh is... and if
> the flesh is tough enough to resist that bomb with
> minimal visible damage, it should be tough enough
> to deflect bullets (a much lower damage). Yet as
> well all know, in the comics he can't do that.
> I'm saying it's a huge contradiction in the
> movies.


Nah, Pun, you got it all wrong! In each pumpkin bomb in the movie the Goblin has different things. Remember some had those blade like things that flew around and cut stuff up!? So it isn't necessarily the case that the bomb that hit Spidey was the same bomb that atomized those corporate jerks!:D

And as far as the comics go, we don't really know if he can. He always seems to dodge the bullets regardless. Besides, who's gonna pull a 22 on Spidey anyway? Most folks opt for a automatic type to get a better chance at hitting him! Now this type of damage he is very likely to be vulnerable to!!8-)

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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

Nah dude, those were razor bats. I'm pretty sure a pumpkin bomb's a pumpkin bomb.

I'm pretty sure he has been shot in the comics.