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I think where you come down on a human achieving greater than Am F depends again on how you see F. If the F stat is the amalgam of the physical and mental, then it would seem a human being would be limited to Am no matter how long he lived as long as his physical and mental abilities were so limited.
If you think it's a skill, more than an innate talent, than there would be no reason a p
by civet5285
- Let's Talk Stats
I take your point, but I'm not sure that Cap's innate Fighting was so low, simply because his physical abilities were. He might have been an Ali, a Bruce Lee, but trapped in the body of an Arnold Horshack that no amount of training and dedication could improve. It could be that he always had a high F stat, and that the SS serum simply brought his physical capabilities up to match his al
by civet5285
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Do any of you try to determine stat values of your characters that occur within the range of a rank, rather than the default (median) value?
As an example:
In Strength, assuming the earlier values for Wolverine, I would think he'd be a Good (15) or so, whereas Iron Fist would be a Good (11), Daredevil a Good (13), Elektra a Good (8), and so on.
Or do you just assume the median defau
by civet5285
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I think it is true that rarely does anyone completely change their mind, as in, doing a 180-degree conceptual turnaround.
I do think these discussions are valuable and enjoyable, though, because they can make you think. I know they have for me. I have come across a great deal of thought-provoking stuff in this (and other like-minded) threads.
My point about the limitations of using "r
by civet5285
- Let's Talk Stats
Man, very cool discussion going. I like it.
In terms of Gamora, I have no problem with her rolling on the Unearthly column because of her Martial Supremacy. I think it seems consistent. I also have no problems with Thor rolling on the Un or even Shift something when he's fighting with Mjolnir. Cap and his shield, same thing.
I do have a problem with Thor having a base Fighting stat of
by civet5285
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On this page, at least, Gamora's fighting is Amazing, which I think is probably sound. Un? I wouldn't think so.
by civet5285
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Hm, very thought-provoking.
Some random thoughts:
I like how you differentiate different characters with different fighting styles. I think it's cool, and reflects the comics, where characters (at least when written well) really do not fight like one another at all, when they're distinct, I mean. I'm not sure in game terms how "Brute" translates into actual moves an
by civet5285
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Hm.
Well, I'm neither arguing or disagreeing.
It could be that you would not like to play in the group I play in. It might also be that it might be mutual (I won't speak for the rest of the group).
I guess it comes down to playing with the group you like, under what rules you all can agree on.
I'd be the last player (or judge, when I've done that) to force people
by civet5285
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Anyone done a stat on these characters, both movie and graphic novels?
by civet5285
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I hear you.
I can't speak for the rest of the group, but I know I consider it part and parcel of the "great responsibility" sort of thing, that one part of that is to prevent casualties, if possible.
I've played in groups which play like the old Stan Lee comics, very simplistic. I've also played in groups that played like a more somber, "adult" graphic
by civet5285
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Has anyone done a write-up of Remo & Chuin, the student and master of Sinanju, respectively? They are the characters from the "Destroyer" series.
by civet5285
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Man, that gas main example is funny, I was laughing just thinking about it.
No, I take your point, but I wasn't clear, I guess in explaining the rule.
First, norms do not always die at one shot if attacked by a hero, and they probably should. Why? If a guy who can pick up an auto and throw it hits a normal person as hard as they can, they probably would. (We can put aside the concept t
by civet5285
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Hm. All right, I grant you, but how much strength was he exerting to even do that much? I mean, how much weight was he supporting on his back to support that pocket, I wonder? If the mountain is that heavy, probably that pocket is more than 100 tons, right?
Hmm.
by civet5285
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Well, you know these are accidental casualties, you know, friendly frags, not deliberate targeting.
I mean, if Thor throws the Hulk through a building (like a ten-area Slam, say), and the Hulk actually hits hard enough to smash through every wall, desk, chair, furniture, whatever, through every steel, stone and brick structure in his way, how would that not kill someone? The odds against killi
by civet5285
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20 billion tons? Okay, so is that Cl5000 or are we at Beyond at that point?
The Thor-Iron Man thing depends on how you see Iron Man. Iron Man is a character who has been consistently and badly overrated in both comics and game terms.
Characters at Monstrous S already do as much damage in game terms with a punch as a tank shell. Other tanks get destroyed by a tank shell; there's no way
by civet5285
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I, uh, I hear what you're saying (I think), but having a ShiftX S score is unbalanced both in comics terms (Thor doesn't routinely engage in feats of strength, certainly not on that scale) and game terms (where a single blow from ShiftX S takes out just about everyone). It would be like playing that old "Space Invaders" game, but the invaders never land, just going back and fo
by civet5285
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Just a side-note. The Judge of the group I play with, for whatever reason, loves civilian casualties in a superhero fight. He's actually fashioned tables to estimate the number of killed and injured depending on the power of the attack. One of his rules involves hero-types attacking normal people.
If the power rank of an attacker exceeds the total health of the target, the player must rol
by civet5285
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We've, I think, had to agree to disagree about this one, Punstarr, but I would note that for Thor to be that skilled means his opponents are skilled. If he's had thousands of years to cut down opponents who all charge saying "have at thee," with little or no skill, I'm not sure how much better he'd get. That having been said, however, we can always agree to disagree.
by civet5285
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That's a great point, in that the rank numbers may not differentiate the relative abilities of two characters who have the same rank but a different number.
Personally, I don't necessarily default to the most common depiction of a superhero, but rather the depiction whose stories I most enjoyed. Most of those happen to be less powerful, since making a hero vulnerable, in comics and
by civet5285
- Let's Talk Stats
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but one could argue that many superhero character has exhibited strength way beyond listed stats in a comic, usually when a different writer came on board, or some such editorial change. The Hulk has actually supported a mountain (in "Secret Wars") which was said to be in the order of over 20000 tons, I believe. This would place him (game stat
by civet5285
- Let's Talk Stats
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but one could argue that many superhero character has exhibited strength way beyond listed stats in a comic, usually when a different writer came on board, or some such editorial change. The Hulk has actually supported a mountain (in "Secret Wars") which was said to be in the order of over 20000 tons, I believe. This would place him (game stat
by civet5285
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First gripe: Why is it now that every lower-level character now has an Amaz F stat? If this is the maximum human ability, why isn't it reserved for the few characters who really warranted it? In the early edition, Captain America, I think, was the only guy who had it. Wolverine, for example, was at Incr. Keep in mind that an Olympic level boxer would probably be around Exc fighting rank.
by civet5285
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I take your point. You might note another discussion in which the whole Fighing stat was discussed as representing an amalgam or synergy of all the other physical and mental abilities (ASERIP describe the person, and F represents the overall effectiveness of the combat package, so to speak).
I don't disagree with you about Thor's fighting skill, if the F stat represents only fightin
by civet5285
- Let's Talk Stats
Or, conversely, the writers just started amping him because that was the trend of the time (which continues to this day). It's pretty tricky to come up with a comic book mechanic that can explain the Thing going from a press limit of around 5 tons to that of around 100. "He mutates further," etc. all of those "in comic" explanations can be reduced to "the writers de
by civet5285
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Sure I remember them. I have some of them still. I never knew of them with that acronym before.
By the time they came out, Hulk & Thing had gotten to at least Monstrous Strength, and Spider-man well into Incredible, though.
I was talking about the heroes at their very early incarnations.
by civet5285
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Hm. I'm not up on my acronyms. What, exactly, are you referring to?
by civet5285
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I remember Silver Surfer having an encounter with a jealous Thing, in which Thing beat the holy heck out of him (although, to be fair, Surfer wasn't fighting back). In order to physically overcome the Thing, he used his "power cosmic" to increase his strength, then decked the Thing, which implied that his physical strength was inferior.
I hear you about the Thing, but I couldn
by civet5285
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Someone awhile back posted about how it would be to game with some of their favorite heroes at their original, lower power levels, which got me thinking. Here are some stats for heroes at their original levels, which generally are as weak as they have ever been.
I know nowadays the trend in both the game and the comics it to continually up the powers of the heroes, but I actually find "
by civet5285
- Let's Talk Stats
I like that house rule, although it primarily differentiates offensively rather than defensively, but still pretty cool.
The idea of simply using the Stat as a FEAT instead of Fighting, depending on the circumstances, also makes sense.
Our group is pretty cool, in that our Judge tries not for "realism," per se, but for "comic realism." All the battles have to seem like a
by civet5285
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I like it. It's simple and uses the existing game mechanics in a very intuitive way. I'd have to playtest it to see how it works.
I've also come across two variants of your idea:
1. Same roll, but the dodging character's colors refer to a color rather than a column shift. Red is 3 color shifts (red becomes a fumble), yellow is 2 (red becomes a miss, yellow a fumble), an
by civet5285
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