Max stats?

Why does that 'count'?

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I did "out myself" with the Cap and Taskmaster examples in fighting from my first post.. Long ago to beef up my villains I did up Taskmasters stats to there rank maximums ( except strength- he's lucky to get ex-20 but I would still barely give it to him )

Is there any TSR stats on Cap say during the Invaders 1940's days as having only inc-40 fighting?

as Powersurge recounts, that would not be out of line. perhaps Cap gained his AM-50 Fighting during his Avengers time- with new training methods and tech practice support. -no danger room but still pretty good.

Neither of you are listening to me at all. Listen carefully now. :)

When I say he's not superhuman, I don't mean he's an average Joe. I recognize that no human could achieve perfection in -all- aspects of their physical being as Cap has... I'm -not- disputing that. I never was. When I say "not superhuman", I mean he has no single ability or attribute above that which is human maximum... which is true. And yes, being peak human -is- Cap's "thing", his concept when it comes to his "powers", so having him exceed any of those human maximums would change his basic concept. I think that would be a bad thing, character-wise. If Cap could benchpress trains and fight as well as Thor, he wouldn't be nearly as interesting to me. He's unique because he's "superhuman" without being superhuman.

The point was to imagine an anal/detailed specific rank numbers for established Marvel characters and what they would be, not just for fighting but strength, reason etc. etc. as compared against other Marvel characters who just happen to have the same rank ( but again not the same number value )-as if it had always been like that from the begining.

Like to pretend in 1986 when the advanced version had come out - dead on point specific- Shang-chi AM-62 Fighting, Cap 1942 era Inc-40 , 1945 Inc-44, early Avengers Am-48 NOW= AM-59 or something.

I realize my question on whether they have "year one" stats for Cap during the Invaders era was off topic which I started but I was just curious. I just remember seeing a spiderman supplement that had his early stat numbers.

It would be interesting to of been able to see like Fantastic Four " the early years" stats- like the THING's strength than as compared to his 70's rank or current #.

the TSR Kitty Pryde was a good example of " stat creep " but for good reason.

The Thing's strength was Remarkable starting out, as he could barely press 5 tons (which given Super-Skrull was copied off of him during that period he really shouldn't have more than Incredible Strength but they tend to give him 50 tons to be fair).

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Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Thing's strength was Remarkable starting out,
> as he could barely press 5 tons (which given
> Super-Skrull was copied off of him during that
> period he really shouldn't have more than
> Incredible Strength but they tend to give him 50
> tons to be fair).

I think Remarkable rank for strength is 1 ton. The Thing at the of his career would likely be at the rank of Incredible, since he could press 5 tons.

The thing to focus on here ( pun intended ) is The Thing underwent a physical transformation. He started out looking like mushy clay, then gradually transformed into a hard rock like being. This might explain the increase in strength.

Marvel comics in the 1960's were not big on stats. The hero's and villans alike did not have Monstrous abilities. It seems in the 1960's, Amazing was about as good as it got.

5 tons is Remarkable, starting out pushing to 10 tons would be reasonable, NOT to 50 tons, also it's been established that while his mutation has brought about some of his increase over the years the main reason for the Thing reaching such incredible heights for his strength is Reed Richards designing specialized weight-training equipment for the express purpose of him being able to work out and maximize his strength. Something that later on helped benefit the She-Hulk as well.

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Could it be argued that Captain America's Fighting was only INC-40 in 1942?


And only became Am-50 in near the end of the war or even the begining of the Avengers stint?

Depends on how much of that fighting was raw, natural talent realized by the super soldier serum.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 10:56PM by Punstarr.

Captain America was pretty highly trained post super soldier serum, and before he took the field in WWII. Even if the Serum took him to a 'raw' talent of IN [40], the training he did with the army refined that skill to a reasonable increase of +1cs to AM [50]. one might say, however, he didn't possess all of the fighting talents and weapons specializations he currently possesses.

Considering how long Cap's been out of the ice and general proliferation of combat training beyond what was given in WWII, how much has he broadened his talent range by when it comes to combat skills/martial arts? He's too intelligent and demonstrated too much knowledge of Martial Arts to be as inexperienced as some claim he is when it comes to martial arts (particularly when the debates come up between who is better, him or Batman).

Considering how much training he seems to do when not in an actual fight he should be very broadly trained by this point.

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Oh yeah, definately. He's had training at this point not only from the Army, but SHIELD, as well as training with very talented fighters as an Avenger, such as the Black Panther. So he's been exposed to some of those eastern arts that people say gives the bat an advantage.

Let's not forget also that while his reason doesn't always reflect it, Cap's mind is razor sharp when it comes to combat tactics and strategy. So he can analyze a situation and break it down to the fundemental strengths and weaknesses of his opponents combat organization, and further, exploit them to his advantage.

One reason I gave him a 3CS bonus to his Reason for combat tactics to reflect that, as his mind is uniquely suited for such situations. He's the Reed Richards of combat and military tactics.

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