Max stats?

Could an arguement be made for some characters to have the maximum number for there ability ranks- like Captain America and fighting- Am-50 to AM-62 or perhaps the Taskmaster with the type of power he has to have the max number in fighting 62 instaed of 50.

or some hero or villain with strength - say ex-20 but Ex-25 ( again maybe Cap )

Only for a PC. NPCs always have the average stats, but you can do whatever you like in your own game. :)

i agree with Punstarr. besides who wants to do all the math adjustments? The average ranks make things a lot cleaner.

Uh no, NPC characters don't always have standard rank numbers, there are a few cases where one is displayed with starting rank numbers. An NPC in the Nightmares of Futures Past module series for example, as well as the divergent reality version of the Thing known as the Thingpin, from the One Thing After Another which-way adventure book.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 01:32PM by Nightmask.

Yeah, I definitely think that a case could be made.

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Very rare exceptions, dude. Very rare.

Only because the defaults are where things are set at for static/experienced characters, but for a campaign having your NPCs developing and growing in capabilities like the PCs isn't that unreasonable. One reason villains do things after all is to gain in power and while it's not often discussed in Super-hero RPGs like it is in fantasy ones but all those NPCs have goals and motivations and should be evolving and reacting to things going on around them. The guy who wants to prove himself the strongest should show some increase in his FASE as he tests himself against the PCs and his efforts 'offscreen' as it were rather than remain at default settings. What works for and is expected out of heroes should apply to villains as well.

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While I agree that villains should advance, why do it point by point? They're NPC's after all, why not just shift the rank up by 10 [or 25 as the case may be] points?

Well the degree of advancement would be up to the judge, based on the experiences the NPC goes through in their campaign. Some might jump by more points than another NPC might in a different campaign. If he's not seen often he would likely show more jump to keep him at least some kind of challenge for the PCs, or he could be incarcerated often and not show much growth between encounters but still get a few points due to his encounters with the PCs.

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I have to admit although Nightmask mentioned some rare examples the only one I remember is Black Knights sword damage with the blunt ( or was it edged? ) side at 16 points instead if 20 points of damage. and this is not even ability ranks!


It would be interesting to see ( 3rd ED. NEW version maybe ) some very specific re-modeling of established Marvel characters stats comparitively speaking.

say for instance how Jeff Grubb would mark Cap's AM Fighting compared Shang-Chi's AM fighting. Or Things' Strength of MN to She-Hulk's - strength would be a little easier to stat than the others perhaps.


Side note: who would any of you put on the high end of the amazing fighting rank. (46 to 62 )?
just thought of something- there could be someone with under 50 AM fighting- like a 48.

The reason the Black Knight's sword gets that designation is the rule regarding damage with blunt items. It's a bit contrary in spots but damage from using an object to do blunt damage, whether a lead pipe or indestructable shield is generally considered to be Strength +1CS, using the starting rank number, not default rank number, when shifting the strength up to determine damage. This caps out at the material strength of the item (which is why in the example you don't often see the Thing using a lead pipe in combat because he'd only do Excellent damage and not his Strength rank in damage because of the low Material Strength rank in comparison to his natural Strength) so for super-strong characters they generally stick with using fists due to the difficulty of finding items with the Material Strength to give them a damage boost in combat (Adamantium versions of Brass Knuckles are expensive after all, although admittedly Ulik the Rock Troll has Uru metal versions). This means that technically when Thor hits with his hammer his damage should be 126 damage and not 150 damage (starting rank as opposed to default rank).

Well if anyone were tapping out at his limits on a stat it'd be Captain America with his Fighting, and would have been Spider-man before his death and rebirth moved him up from Amazing to Monstrous Agility.

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Well that's just it. Having a 46 Amazing Fighting or a 62 Amazing Fighting doesn't make you a better fighter. You roll on the same column. The only immediate benefit would be the extra health. Being close to the next column isn't even a benefit for someone like Cap, because Amazing is human max... he can't get to Monstrous (at least not until he's lived and fought another 500 years or so).

Or had a mutational event that opened up the next rank to him, and as far as it 'only' giving someone extra health well health is NEVER extra, you always need every point you have and never consider any new health more than you need.

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As has been stated in Marvel Canon, Shang Chi is undisputedly the best hand-to-hand fighter on Earth, so i'd say he'd be at max level of AM.

Mutational event? He's not superhuman, though. That's the whole point. If he were to suddenly mutate, he wouldn't be the same Cap.

As for health, yes I know extra health is always good. I'm just saying a 62 Fighting character is no better a fighter than a 46 Fighting character. They both have the exact same chance of succeeding on a FEAT.

Quote

As has been stated in Marvel Canon, Shang Chi is undisputedly the best hand-to-hand human fighter on Earth

I fixed your quote, dude. ;)

Where exactly does my statement contradict anything of that nature? Cap isn't impervious to mutation; heck he even had super-strength for a period of time. He was capable of enhancement by the power broker process without harmful mutation, and what makes Cap who he is isn't his being a superhuman who's powers put him at peak human ability it's his heroic ideal and committment to the american dream that he seeks to inspire everyone to aspire to.

If he were to undergo some event and end up with say Incredible strength and Monstrous Endurance (ala the power broker process) or Monstrous or even Unearthly Fighting that wouldn't make him any less a hero of the common man. Considering how quickly humans reject people for being different anyone who would reject him already would have because he's too physically perfect and idealistic even if he can't toss boxcars around or rip steel with his bare hands.

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I can live with that, he's still rated above Rogers, and that's what counts.

Not superhuman???

I dunno. None of Cap's physical abilities exceed human limits, but having peak limits in all areas is certainly beyond what any one human would ever be capable of achieving based on restirction imposed by frame, weight, height, and build.

A heavy weight for instance will never have as much stamina or agility as a light weight, which will never generate the raw power of a heavy weight, etc., etc., etc.

Cap is peak in all areas, with his build having no baring on the matter. And *that* IS superhuman.

On a side note; there is no way Cap could be ranked amongst the world's best HTH combatants. His experience isn't as vast as him being around since WWII might first suggest, prior to the modern era he could only have been exposed to so many techniques, and his inherent physical aptitude was clearly substandard, ie. he has no natural physical talent.

Not that Cap isn't one of my favourite comicbook characters, but somethings just don't add up to my thinking. To my thinking, there is no way he could compare to the Master of Kung-Fu or Batman for instance.

But really, shouldn't *all* of Cap's ASE stats be at max. rank number? And wouldn't that additional health reflect combat prowess, not just raw ability to absorb damage, as in ADnD?

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Nice to see someone else agrees with me that Cap is a superhuman, even if his abilities don't exceed human maximums. Some RPGs even have powers like 'Physical Perfection' to reflect someone who doesn't exceed racial values but because of the power is the best in all values available to that race. It's a very powerful ability for anyone to have.

I don't have problems with Cap having Amazing Fighting, as raw potential does count for something and that was considered part of the features he acquired due to the super-soldier formula. Consider that his write-ups also consider him to be BETTER than any Olympic Athlete that ever competed, not equal but superior. At least in Agility he should have higher than standard rank number, and if I remember correctly his reaction time is ten times that of a normal human being. I do agree that he doesn't have all Martial Arts but what he does have includes a unique style he created to work with his perfect physique and I think Bruce Lee demonstrated how useful creating a style that maximizes the use of your own potential can be.

You make a good argument for him having max rank numbers to reflect just how effective he is at surviving combat and otherwise lethal situations. That would be something like 27 health more than he currently has, to reflect his greater survival potential.

That does create the question though wouldn't Taskmaster also have max rank numbers with the degree to which he's mimicked so many capable people? Also as we've seen with him and his ability to easily record physical maneuvers is it that unreasonable to presume that Captain America might have a similar potential? Not at the superhuman ease level that Taskmaster has but as part of his superior talent package, since one doesn't have to be superhuman to have a knack for learning things and Cap IS Superhuman to a degree.

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