Maestro

That was a great explanation of Regeneration.

The way you figure it for the Ultimate Powers Book version is exactly that way I do it. But when I mentioned it here on Classic Marvel many people told me it was way to complicated. Good to know I'm not the only one who sees it that way.

The Last Duskblade
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Thanks, and well if basic math skills have degraded to the point they can't handle simple division and fractions (especially with the calculator that comes as part of the Microsoft) they need to go back to school and join some primary schoolers for a refresher. I like the game for its simpler rules in part but really that's going from simplifying to lazy when it's generally a one time thing to figure out how much health you regain when and once you note it you don't have to redo it unless your power rank or Endurance change and that's not likely to be often if at all.

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Man, you weren't kidding about flaming. I read the prior thread about this. People were going absolutely apesheet over their interpretations.

That having been said, it would make more sense to me that Hulk and Wolverine would have Regeneration instead of TI. TI would seem to conceptually represent something other than toughness and healing, the way it works. It seems almost like a force field, or something akin to it. It wouldn't seem applicable to Hulk & Wolverine, particularly with the fighting stat reduction if lost. They would still fight the same, they'd just take more damage if hit, which doesn't describe the TI rule you talked about.

That having been said, I like the Regen rule of having a character regain 1/10 of their power rank per turn, in or out of combat, and in addition of course the 1/day End rank health addition. So Hulk gets back 10 pts/turn, Wolverine 5. Easy to figure out, relatively easy to apply.

Body Resistance as described seems like a "TI-lite."

I think in the old days (basic rules) they said Hulk and Thing and the other megapowers in the MU just had resistance to physical attacks at x, energy at y, and you'd subtract x or why from the proper attack. Seems a lot simpler to use, and would be consistent with the cinematic exaggerations of the comic world.

Nightmask, I find that a bit insulting. Some people (like myself) really dislike heavy math. It's not a matter of being "lazy" as you put it... I hated math in high school and college and I don't like it to this day. English was always my strong point, and aside from basic addition and subtraction I really tend to avoid mathematics. You may be a math whiz, but remember that not all of us are and there are many who don't enjoy it.

Nothing of the math wiz about me, if there were I'd have completed my bachelor's degree in Engineering and be making $100k a year by now instead of being unemployed and wishing that I had work. Hating the math doesn't make it math-heavy either and the math required to work out what benefits Regeneration applies is math you need to get by in the world, since you have to use math every day to survive. I can see where someone with a specific disability that would make it more difficult than the average person wanting to avoid it but that's just more reason to practice the techniques for overcoming the disability instead of avoiding it.

While what I said wasn't meant to be insulting and insult wasn't intended the point still stands that basic math isn't being math-heavy. It's no different than going into a store and having to work out the cost/benefit ratios for relative pricing on something you want.

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The Hulk doesn't have TI, he's got Body Resistance, or if you go by some of the older write-ups Armor Skin or Body Armor depending on the label that you wanted to give it. I really don't know why they gave him TI in the forums other than it sounds neater to say 'TRUE INVULNERABILITY' instead of 'body resistance'. I don't really care for the shift to giving him the 'power of the day' in the form of Regeneration either. Seems like they want to give super-healing to half the Marvel Universe. I think somewhere along the way someone decided they also liked showing him getting hurt and healing right back up from it, thought it was 'neater' than him being shown taking no damage at all.

Wolverine on the other hand hasn't got any protection, body resistance or TI in any case. Unfortunately they've overfocused on his Regeneration which was actually more impressive when it was slower and he was one of the only ones around who had it. 6/hr might seem slow until you consider for the average human they don't even come close to that. Having a typical health would have you recovering 6 health after an entire 24 hrs went by, provided you hadn't suffered any Endurance reducing events. He was shown being more tactical-minded and crafty when he didn't have practical immortality (except when berserk of course), now he just runs in and goes 'shoot me I'm a big target' until he's close enough to gut them.

The Power rank/10 per turn recovery rate is really just way way too fast. Such rates should be something you encounter almost never, PC or NPC-wise. Madcap for example fits as he's only got ultra-regeneration and his Emotion Control powers and otherwise normal human stats across the board. Deadpool while more impressive physically also gives someone in that category. Wolverine though was a far more complex and outfitted character who originally wasn't defined by his Regeneration but they felt like he just had to be the best regenerator around instead of the best fighter around and he's suffered as a result.

TI just got mis-selected later on in many newer write-ups instead of being used only with the most powerful of heavy hitters, like the Silver Surfer and other Heralds or Galactus. About the only place I've seen it used was on Apocolypse who's powers would rate him as appropriate for TI, and he only had Typical rank even then.

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Hm. You make a good point about Regeneration.

How do you use it in game turns? A character with Regeneration, rather than recovering the End rank 1/day recovers it 1/hr? or does it depend on the rank of the Regeneration?

I make use of the Ultimate Powers Book interpretation, namely divide 24hrs (or 1440 minutes if the rank number is higher than 24) by the power rank number to determine what the new rate is at which you recover that Endurance rank. If the numbers are friendly enough I'll convert it to x# of health/ y# of turns format. There isn't any requirement for total rest either, since your body's always trying to heal and repair, although obviously resting is best.

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That's a ton more math heavy than -anything- else in the game though.

Not really. You have to track a variety of things, including work out what the costs are for increasing a power or other ability which requires multiplication and addition. Not like you have to break out pencil and paper to divide your power rank of Regeneration into the number of hours or minutes in a day to determine how much faster you get your health back. Just put it into any handy calculator and it does the actual figuring for you.

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Why not use the power rank of Reg as the ratio to multiplier to determine how much more health is gained than 1/day? Than divide by whatever unit you want, hours, minutes or whatever? I suppose you could get down to seconds, if the value is helpful.

Doesn't matter how you arrange the operators, the end result and desire is the same: namely determining how much more rapidly you can recover your lost health. Some just seem afraid of the math even when it's laid out as simply as possible when for the life of me I really can't understand it. Calculus is scary math, advanced trigonometry is scary, not basic division and multiplication.

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That's a ton more math heavy than -anything- else in the game though.

It's true that one advantage to the 1/10 rank of health gain per turn (or per round, whichever) is a lot easier to apply.

Sure but is that a "House Rule" or the original ruled for applying the health points recovered?

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!

It'd be a house rule as neither published version of Regeneration is close to being that fast (although the Player's book is in the ballpark). The (Rank/10) per turn is so fast what's the point of health in the first place? I mean you want to be invulnerable to harm and never lose health and for the complaints about unbalancing regarding TI and it making fights 'drag on forever' or other excuses against it what else do you get but a fight that goes forever when someone's player recovers from damage as quickly as it's inflicted? It's much like the guy from X3 going 'Come on!' to Wolverine as he gets first one arm then the other cut off but regrows them so quickly it's like he never even lost them in the first place. Blink and they're back. The Ultimate Powers version is actually the most reasonable and slowest of the three versions (since I doubt someone's going to be rolling up CL1000 or higher for a power rank to compete with the other two versions).

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I disagree. At Amazing rank, you heal 5 damage per round... not much when taking Incredible or even Excellent damage each round. That 5 healed is going to slow down your beatdown, but certainly not stop it. You'd have to have like Class 1000 Regeneration to heal fast enough to negate the level of damage you're talking about.

That's just way too fast; it's like getting cheap Body Resistance on top of Regeneration and while I certainly love the power rates like that encourage 'rush the machineguns' thinking like Wolverine's turned into. It's been so bad with him they even had to finally give him a backstory and release it using the House of M in order to distract from how simplistic he'd gotten and try and restore some measure of complexity to the character. You also lose a lot of drama and worry when the PC can heal that fast because even someone with all Unearthly stats can recover all his lost health with 8 minutes of hiding out somewhere.

I simply don't see that kind of speed as appropriate except in a special case for an NPC like Madcap or Deadpool (Wolverine does NOT need to have his 'best at what he does' be 'best regenerator ever') or a PC that happened to have Power Duplication and copied it from one of them. Conventional Regeneration as listed in the UPB is more than sufficient to give someone decent benefits without upsetting game balance. It's only problem is it lacks certain optional powers like Self-Revival or Resistance to Toxins and/or Disease and/or Aging but I'm sure David would have included those if he hadn't been so rushed.

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That's fine, so give Wolverine Regen of Good 10. The system still works fine and even if it's not appropriate for the likes of Wolverine (who by the way has a Healing Factor, not true Regeneration), it works perfectly for others. 5 a round is not game breaking in my opinion.

Believe me Wolverine's been shown getting burned to ash so he's definitely got Regeneration. Per turn health recovery is really just too fast, if you insist on a rate that doesn't require a few bits of multiplication and division then go per hour which'd still be dozens of times faster than a normal human.

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