Flash

I was going through the character profiles to get some ideas for a mini-adventure involving the JL v. X-men.

I was reading the writeup for Flash and comparing it to the one for Quicksilver.
Is it a given that Flash should have the same defensive advantage that Quicksilver has v. non-area effect/non-psychic attacks?

I dont know If you read the whole amalgam storyline but Quicksilver and Flash have fought before. Speed type guys such as the Flash are way WAY faster than marvel characters due to the Speed Force. In the marvel universe where the speed force doesn't exist Flash is just a normal guy =D

Whoops I just noticed I typed all that and didn't answer your question =p. I'm not sure what "defensive advantage" your refering to but odds are if it's related to his speed in some way yes. As far as I know Quicksilver doesn't have any speed related power stunts the Flash hasn't done at one point or another.

Acknowledged.

In the write up for QS, an attacker needs a Red FEAT to hit Pietro if he is not directly engaged with him. The attacker needs a Yellow FEAT if Pietro is engaged with him. If the attack is area effect based ( or psychic) a Green FEAT succeeds.

The aforementioned info is not included in the Flash writeup.

Here's a couple of more questions:

If Flash is fighting Quicksilver, and Flash wins the initiative, does he need a Yellow Fighting FEAT to land one hundred blows?

Regardless if the defender has hypersonic speed, can the defender opt for a single Evade roll to avoid all one hundred blows?

Who started this "one hundred blows" B.S. anyway?

FOOM wrote:

>
> Who started this "one hundred blows" B.S. anyway?


I believe the Whizzer of the Squadron Supreme. His write-up in Volume 7 of the Gamer's Handbooks states it as a Power Stunt of his Hyper-Speed. Interestingly, this is a completely different power than his Hyper-Running. Anyway, the one hundred punches is because he has Unearthly level. The power states his reaction time is increased 100 fold, and he has another Power Stunt that allows him to perceive and catch high velocity objects at Unearthly level. So, if you decide that the Flash should have it too, then he should have it at the appropriate Power Rank, which would be Class range in D.C. There are actually a bunch of Power Stunts from speedsters that would be devastating if given to someone who has Class range speed like the Flash. Quicksilver's official write-up allows him to substitute his Power Rank for his Strength when escaping a Grapple. That's Shift-X for him, but the Flash could wrestle his way away from, well, anything!

The whole Speed-Force-doesn't-exist-in-Marvel thing is annoying. Why initiate a cross-over then completely negate the point of it in the same breath? It's like dropping the Silver Surfer into D.C. then saying he can't do anything because the Power Cosmic only exists in Marvel. Why bother?

P.S.
If a guy has his reaction time increased 100 fold, wouldn't the most obvious consequence be a bonus to Initiative? Whizzer has reflexes that we can't even understand but he rolls Initiative normally. Duh.



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

Superspeed seems to be one of those powers that the game judge has to play free-style with.
Basically, the action declared by the PC simply has to be approved by the game judge.

For instance, a line of 6 L.O.A. (Locusts of the Abyss) agents each armed with laser rifles are set to fire at some non-armored PCs. However, superspeedster Soundbreaker declares that he will run past the front of each agent and disarm each of them by collecting their weapons as he speeds by out of harms way.

It happens in the comics, so it should be able to happen in MSH.

Is this a single FEAT roll based upon the hero's superspeed rank? Is it penalized so that must roll Yellow or Red to succeed? Is it one attempt per L.O.A. agent that he passes by, with a subsequent -1CS per additional attempt?

How would you other game judges handle it?

I would require a Power FEAT and then another FEAT for every single action the player wanted to take, as long as we didn't spend the whole night resolving his one turn. Reminds me too much of an ill-fated GURPS Martial Arts night we once had.

I think the bottom line is gimping the speedsters. David has a great couple of examples in a thread in the Discussion board. You only need a couple powers and stats at decent levels and a savvy player to see the game come apart at the seams. The Flash, if crossed-over, really could take-out any team of heroes on Earth if he wanted to. Hulk would be kinda' tough, but when isn't he?



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

Agreed. One thing you could do as a gm if you wanted the JLA in your game is to weaken them in some way. For example you could lower Flash's speed to be more in line with the marvel universe. As an alternative the JLA could have been in one hell of a fight just prior to meeting them (leaving them fatigued and maybe a little short on Karma.)

Another thought would be to have them run into some younger folks from the dcu. For speedsters Jessica Quick or maybe even Impulse. Superboy too is much more in line with marvels power level than most of the JSA. All up to you though.

Unless you do something to level the playing field the Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and last but not least the Big S are going to be kicking some serious mutant butt. Then again maybe that's what you want... lol I dunno.



Post Edited (12-23-04 21:09)

I read a DC Elsewhere story (the What If? of DC) where Flash vibrated his hand so quickly and hit Amazo's head with such speed that Flash's hand penetrated Amazo's metalic face. Flash then proceeded to remove Amazo's brain. This was done in one panel on the page.

Could Flash's hand penetrate Hulk's skull, thereby allowing Flash to remove Hulk's brain?

I suppose he could since he's able to vibrate through solid objects. But I dont think Wally (the Flash) would do something like that. He's a good guy. Then again if the JLA were mind controlled..... well then anythings possible.

It would all be left up to the gm I would think since he's never done anything like that before.

<Edit> SInce this IS the stats forum for the record Hulk has MN (75) body resistance while Flast has UN (100) vibrate hand. So there ya go.First you have to decide. Can he vibrate through live stuff? and second Would he even if he could?



Post Edited (12-23-04 21:21)

Hmm. You raise an interesting point.
Excluding the UPB rules for Hyperspeed and Prehensile Hair plus the writeup for the Whizzer, the maximum number of attacks that any superspeedster has in the MSH is 4.

1) Does anyone else know who that character with 4 attacks is?
2) Does anyone have a writeup ( from 1984 to 1993) of a character who can attack more than 4 times in a single round?

If you dropped Lex Luthor's brain into Wally West's body he would whack the Hulk in two panels. The is one panel more than any of the X-Men would last.



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

true_dweomer wrote:

> If you dropped Lex Luthor's brain into Wally West's body he
> would whack the Hulk in two panels. The is one panel more than
> any of the X-Men would last.
>

..."That is one"...



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

I remember that Elseworlds story. That was "The Nail", a story of the Justice League without Superman.

I think that Flash was Barry though, since the GL at the time was Hal.

Plus, Flash knows that Amazo is a robot, so it's not really that surprising that he would go for a 'kill' shot. :)

You are correct. It was Barry. And in the story, it was Ra's Ah Ghul who watched as Flash executed the move. Ra's' response was one of surprise as he witnessed a superhero "kill" an enemy.

Pushing it. Wolverine has fought the Hulk for pages in the past, although he tends to lose eventually. Wolverine has never lasted more than two panels against Cyclops. Storm could just fly above him and send down the lightning; eventually he'd throw something at her, but she'd be able to dodge for a while. Jubilee or Shadowcat could potentially kill him in one panel (Shadowcat could phase out his brain, Jubilee could blow it up). Iceman can't be killed at the moment, and so long as there was water around he has pretty much infinite durability - so he would probably eventually win. Beast or Gambit could dodge around for a while, Psylocke pre-Nimbo was powerful enough to put a mind blast through Juggernaut's helmet so she could probably damage Hulk, and Phoenix/Jean Grey/Marvel Girl/Whatever could just use her TK to pick him up and hold him in the air until he calmed down.

I don't think you're really being fair.

-Wal



Surrender? What? You think this letter on my head stands for FRANCE?

Hmm, if the flash vibrated his hand/body into someone and then stopped vibrating..would it hurt the flash or would it hurt them?



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Wallace wrote:

> Pushing it. Wolverine has fought the Hulk for pages in the
> past, although he tends to lose eventually. Wolverine has never
> lasted more than two panels against Cyclops. Storm could just
> fly above him and send down the lightning; eventually he'd
> throw something at her, but she'd be able to dodge for a while.
> Jubilee or Shadowcat could potentially kill him in one panel
> (Shadowcat could phase out his brain, Jubilee could blow it
> up). Iceman can't be killed at the moment, and so long as there
> was water around he has pretty much infinite durability - so he
> would probably eventually win. Beast or Gambit could dodge
> around for a while, Psylocke pre-Nimbo was powerful enough to
> put a mind blast through Juggernaut's helmet so she could
> probably damage Hulk, and Phoenix/Jean Grey/Marvel
> Girl/Whatever could just use her TK to pick him up and hold him
> in the air until he calmed down.
>
> I don't think you're really being fair.
>
> -Wal
>

I said the Hulk would last two panels against a Luthor-brained Flash (I'll call him "Instant Evil", or IE). This is in contrast to the single panel that any one of the individual X-Men would last against IE. I made no comment on any X-Men vs. Hulk scenario. I do think the X-Men team would take down the Hulk but that wasn't what I was talking about.

I don't follow mainstays that closely anymore, so I don't know what they've done to Iceman.



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

Ah, my mistake. But then, Instant Evil could probably take out anyone in a couple of panels, even Superman (think what the Flash did to him in The Dark Knight Strikes Again, only with kryptonite. Or possibly tactical nukes).

-Wal



Surrender? What? You think this letter on my head stands for FRANCE?