Stat nitpicks.

Posted by Wallace 
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Re: Stat nitpicks.
August 17, 2003 06:34AM
On Wolverine -

I would say wolverine has the higher agility listed, he just rarely uses it. It isn't his style. I once saw an x-men comic where they were playing baketball and were supposed to be using no powers, but of course gambit was, as he using his super agility. Wolvie had circle run around him and everyone was making old man jokes. So he goes 'Yeah I just can't keep up with you youngsters' and as he's walking away he tosses the basketball over his shoulder without looking, making a perfect basket from midcourt. That certainly says to me a pretty high agility.

On Jubilee -

You are aware that you won't see an olympic class gymnast over 18, right? I see no reason why someone with training AND natral mutant ability shouldn't qualify no matter what her age.



Jesus Saves! The rest of you take damage.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
August 17, 2003 08:21AM
Remarkable is pretty damn high Agility, especially when combined with the Marksmanship talent (which, with all his training, Wolverine should probably have).

Yeah, you don't see Olympic gymnasts out of their teens in the real world. On the other hand, comic-books have people like Daredevil, Nightwing, Captain America, Mr Immortal and Batman. Otherwise, I would have brought this up.

Hey, do I get a No-Prize for being the first person to bring up the Great Lakes Avengers in a stat debate?

-Wal



Surrender? What? You think this letter on my head stands for FRANCE?
Re: Stat nitpicks.
August 17, 2003 09:54AM
"Yet we use his Rem Fighting to determine evasion and amz agility to determine dodging."

Actually his Am (50) danger sense is used to determine that.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
November 30, 2003 08:52PM
Actually Blob used his gravity smash to knock Wonderman from Rykers Island to Spanish Harlem, what is that about 2 miles? Also the last time that they had an Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, it had an update on Blob is had his original form listed 5'10" 510lbs and Strength listed as enhanced human (RM). But also had his new further mutated form 8', 976lbs and his strength was listed as Superhuman Class 75. So that may answer some of your questions.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
November 30, 2003 08:57PM
I like the second update better for Blob. I've never seen Blob do anything but display REALLY superhuman strength. I guess on could argue that is do to his "gravity" powers, but I don't buy it.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
November 30, 2003 10:06PM
Having collected nothing but Marvels for more than 2 decades now, and with more than 10,000 issues in my collection, I have also been playing the game since it came out in the summer of 84 and have every game accessory in multiple dupicates, every dragon magazine articles and a good number of the Polyhedron articles regarding the game, so I thought that I would put my two cents into this. Take this with a grain of salt as it is just my opinion. I do notice that a lot of people tend to over rate their favorites, due to one or two incidents of them doing more than their listed ranks would indicate, but that is one reason that the game allows karma use to make red feats and such. A lot of people seem to forget this. But on to my take of your questions.




1) I still think Beast should have Incredible Reason.

A: I would say Remarkable, he is definately better than what is listed, especially with his recent depictions. He has also invented some great toys over the years. I would also have no problem with him being listed at Incredible, as he does seem to be going in that direction.

2) In what way does Bishop merit Incredible Fighting? He's a badass, but he's no Daredevil. I give him Remarkable Fighting, and Martial Arts B and C.

A: I totally agree with you on this. Bishop is great, but he is not on the same level as Daredevil, Wolverine, Iron fist, Nick Fury, Electra or any of the Incredible listed fighters.

3) I'm not sure what they should be, but I can't help but think that Cannonball's RIP scores (Typical, Good, Good) are a little low for someone who's done as much as him. Especially with his training from Cable (higher Psyche) and Pete Wisdom (higher Intuition).

A: Cannonball is not all too bright and never has been, his original stats had him at Poor Reason, He is now no better than average. With Good Intuition and Psyche, he is avove average, so I don't have a problem with that.

4) How can Domino have Excellent Strength? She's got a basically human physique - very fit and muscular, but by no means powerful enough for Excellent strength. On the other hand, she's got at least twenty years experience as a mercenary and spy under her belt - I'd raise her Intuition to at least Remarkable.

A: No way has Domino shown this Strength level ever, even in her Six-Pack days. Strong yes, but to be in the Good strength level (which I consider to be 300-600lbs presses), I think she would definatly be. I think she has shown to be in the same strength level as the Black Widow.

5) Havok. Excellent Strength. Why?

A: I agree with you on this one, as I had every appearance he made in a comic, at the point when his stats first came out and had that rank, and nowhere did he ever shop strength that would have allowed him to lift press 600-1500lbs.

6) Jubilee here has Remarkable Agility. So do Wasp, Hawkeye, and Punisher. Of these four, which one is an Olympic-class gymnast who has been seen somersaulting around like Daredevil? Jubilee deserves Incredible Agility. Also - and I'm definitely playing favourites here - she has repeatedly demonstrated immense willpower. Operation: Zero Tolerance, in particular, has me thinking she should have at least Remarkable Psyche. Training with Emma Frost should have helped a little.

A: I agree with Jubilee's Remarkable agility, Black Widow was also an Olympic level Gymnest, and is easily as Agille as Jubilee, she also had continuously kept training it, Jubilee, was unable to do that while she was a runaway and as Wolverine's sidekick. But she is no doubt extremely agile. But her age and the fact that she still has some growing to do, I would list her as Remarkable. Nowhere does it say that she has superhuman agility and as thus would not get to Amazing, so I would think that she has yet to peak at Incredible.

7) Marrow: Same RIP scores as Cannonball. Marrow has lived on instinct and reflex for over ten years; I think she rates at least Remarkable Intuition.

A: I couldn't give you my best research here, but personally I would rank her RIP stats as thus Reason: Typical (While resourcful, she has not had the advantage of a proper education and has been left behind in the intelectual development, had she remained at the school longer, this would have improved. Intuition: Remarkable: She was a survivor, relying on her instincts, she lived in the dark and her other senses were honed well beyond normal, while not superhuman, where very accute. Psyche: Poor, she was not all there, had problems with self control and was often flying off the handle. She was not very stable mentally.

8) Professor X: When did his Reason downgrade from Incredible to Remarkable? When did his Intuition go from Amazing to Excellent?

A: I agree with many on this site. Xavier has not been the same since Onslaught and it shows, he is still suffering and may be dying if I am reading my latest comic right. So I think that he is definately well represented with the stats that were presented.

9) Toad can officially bench press one ton. This probably doesn't quite qualify him for Remarkable Strength, but he should be at least Excellent.

A: Yes he is officially listed as that, but hasn't really shown it at all. He has shown some strength in the past, but can be explained with his leg strength, which has been well documented, so your guess is as good as mine.

10) In what way does Wolverine rate Incredible Agility? He's fast, but he's not in the same league as Daredevil, Captain America, or even Jubilee. On the other hand, he has an official lifting capacity of 500 lbs, well within the Excellent range.


A: Wolverine has shown his Agility to be great, but has also shown it to not be in the same class as Daredevil and Captain America, I would rank him as Remarkable in that ability. I also would not give him Excellent strength either, As he was never listed as having superhuman strength. He has shown that he can lift between 400-500lbs so that is in the mid to upper Good ranking. Nor would I give him Incredible Endurance as he has been winded and tired out in fights before. He would definately be peak human (Remarkable), and all other aspects of his endurances can be explained away with his Healing factor resistances to toxins and disease and his adamantium skeleton. His fighting however has gotten better, and can be considered to be close to that of Captain America, so I can see his fighting at Amazing. There was a comment in one of the other posts in this thread about Wolverine having Marksman as a talent, NO WAY. He is skilled in Some martial arts, and in most oriental weapons, but was rarely equipt with firearms, he can shoot a gun as most people could, but marksmanship, should only be given if he is using those weapons with great frequency.

And, as a special bonus nitpick,

11) Nick Fury has Excellent Intuition and Good Psyche. After over fifty years of covert operations and low-level warfare. I'd raise these both by at least one rank.

A: Nick Fury should be at about Remarkable intuition he is a great detective and spy, his skills are phenomenal, and should be better than listed, but he is getting older, his hearing is going and he is missing an eye, so I would not raise it higher.

Another comment, that was made about the Hulk having Incredible fighting. The Hulk would have fighting at that level when he was Mr.Fixit, and when he was in the Pantheon as he had the Strength of the Green Hulk, Banner's smarts and Fixit's nasty streak. He would now be back to Remarkable, as he is now back at the near mindless monster.

Like I said, this is all my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for your time.
Fiasco
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 14, 2003 03:51PM
Spirit said:

Doesn't DC say Batman can bench 1000 lbs?

Excuse me...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPMMMMMMMMEEEE!!!!!!

BITE YOUR TONGUE, SPIRIT!!!!!!!!

Ahem...

Now.

Now.

That would mean he has Remarkable strength. REMARKABLE. Batman is in no way a superhuman. IN NO WAY. NO WAY AT ALL.

Next on the agenda:

Toad.

This is a quote from Uncannyxmen.net.

Powers and Abilities:
superhuman strength, agility and leaping, pores secrete a mucus resin that adheres to and paralyzes the nervous systems of whatever it touches, expell air from his lungs as compressed gusts of wind, lashing tongue excretes pheromones that bends the will of others to his own.


Just my thoughts. Toads strength should be higher and he needs to be updated.



I HAVE COME TO REAP THE SOULS OF THE LIVING!!!!!
And perhaps, order a burger.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 14, 2003 04:08PM
Actually Saint.

With a non-superhuman str of Ex and a red feat..Bats could lift 1000 lbs.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 15, 2003 03:48PM
Also, I never said DC made sense.
Personally, I think Cap should be stronger than Batman. Barely.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 15, 2003 04:15PM
If we're getting personal, my FASE stats for the two are as follows:

Batman

Fighting: Amazing (50)
Agility: Incredible (40)
Strength: Excellent (20)
Endurance: Remarkable (30)

Health: 140


Captain America

Fighting: Amazing (50)
Agility: Incredible (40)
Strength: Excellent (25)
Endurance: Remarkable (35)

Health: 150

Increased damage and durability - a small edge, but probably edge enough in a brawl.

-Wal



Surrender? What? You think this letter on my head stands for FRANCE?
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 15, 2003 04:24PM
That's a good point. All of Cap's physical stats should be numerically at the tip of his class.
Mental, too, if Ultimates is to be believed.
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 15, 2003 07:04PM
I tend to agree with the stats on Batman and Captain America however Wolverine should have Remarkable agility but Jubillee does not practice acrobatics hardly any more and with recently being clinically dead for a short period of time I do not think she could hang with Daredevil who constantly makes use of his agility. Also Wolverine was trained as both a samurai and a ninja. What kind of agility would Nightwing have? He is more agile than Batman and way more of an acrobat than Jubilee. I think that she should have Remarkable agility for standard stats and have the acrobat skill to boost this to Incredible for dodging, etc..
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 15, 2003 07:58PM
Toad had a mind control tongue?

Trippy....



---------------------
Be Ex/20 to one another!
Re: Stat nitpicks.
December 16, 2003 09:20AM
Okay, Saint Xanatos is right. Toad can crawl on walls, leap, shoot out a long tongue, control amphibians, secret this resin that might have been the reason he could crawl walls. He is also super strong. Remarkable AT LEAST.



So long, and thanks for all the fish!

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