My Silver Surfer

The Warlock-verse's Herald Prime of Galactus.



Silver Surfer
Fighting: Sh-X (150)
Agility: Sh-X (150)
Strength: Sh-X (150)
Endurance: Sh-Z (500)
Reason: Un (100)
Intuition: Sh-X (150)
Psyche: Sh-X (150)

Health: 950
Karma: 400
Resources: |ResRank| (1000)
Popularity: -50

Name: Silver Surfer
Real Name: Norrin Radd
Alias:
Origin: Alien
Form: Normal Human
Sex: Male
Age: 1,000,000,000 years old
Occupation: Herald of Galactus
Motivation: Duty and Honor
Identity: Unknown
Legal Status: Ex-Citizen of Zen-la
Birthplace: Planet of Zenn-la
Marital Status: Widower
Relatives: None-All died long ago., Shala-Baal
Base: Taa II
Group: Herald Of Galactus
Other Affiliations: Herald of Galactus

Known Powers:
Power Cosmic: Sh-Z (500). Power Rank ability to channel vast amounts of Cosmic Energy and the ability to shape those forces to a variety of desired effects. Can raise any one of his stats or powers to this level for 5 turns.
Health Increase: As his FASERIP stats increase so to do his Health and Karma.
Cosmic Awareness: Sh-Z (500). Ability to tune into the flow of energies emanating from the Cosmic Axis and find specific information with power rank ability.
Body Armor: Sh-Y (200). Power Rank protection from Physical and Energy damage.
Plasma Blast: Sh-X (150). Ability to do Power Rank Energy or Force damage with range limited to Line Of Sight. Can raise the Power Rank to Shift-Z but any round he des so he cannot use any f his other powers.
Detect Energy: Sh-Z (500). Can detect energy and type anywhere in a Solar System.
Molecular Conversion: Sh-Z (500). Can reconstitute matter to his desire.
Life-Detection: Sh-Z (500). Ability to sense amount and location of life forms anywhere in a Solar System.
Self-Healing: Sh-Z (500). Ability to Heal damage in himself up to Power Rank levels once per day.
Self-Sustenance: Sh-Z (500). Does not eat, sleep or breathe. Can survive indefinitely in space.
Postcognition: Pr (4). Can "see" what happened in a place or around an object up to 4 weeks in the past.
Telepathy: Am (50). Used only for communication. Can be used to learn any language in seconds.
Invulnerability: Class1000 (1000). Immune to aging, disease and Toxins.
TOP SECRET: Cosmic Conduit: Class3000 (3000). Although he doesn't know it when he was created his master put in him the ability to channel cosmic energy on his level. Galactus meant it as a safe guard in case anything dire should happen to him. It would allow his herald one chance to effect any force that would endanger a being like Galactus. It is unknown if his body could survive the stress such forces bring.

Equipment:
Cosmic Surf Board: Material Strength: He does not need the board to fly but chooses to do so he can save his own power when traveling long distances. CL3000 (3000).
Cosmic Surf Board: Dimension Travel: Once its maximum speed is reached, the board can enter hyper-space to quickly reach any section of the universe. CL3000 (3000).
Cosmic Surf Board: Phasing: The board has the Monstrous ability to render itself and its rider(s) temporarily immaterial. This power is used to enable them to pass through a barrier or to travel through space without risking collision damage with space born particles.: CL1000 (1000).
Cosmic Surf Board: The Silver Surfer's board is a construct of unknown material. It appears to be made from the same reflective material as the Surfer's body coating. The board is psionically linked to its owner and can automatically respond to his mental commands. It can travel independent of him and return to him if they are separated. When he rides it, the Surfer's feet automatically adhere to the board's upper surface. The board has the following powers: N/A.
Cosmic Surf Board: True Flight: He can attain Light Speed and at top speed can enter Hyperspace. The board can attain speeds of 10,000 mph in the atmosphere and 1,000,000 mph in space. Within planetary atmospheres, he moves at Shift-Z speeds 200areas/3,750mph or roughly mach 4.: CL3000 (3000).

Talents:
All

Contacts:
Galactus- Herald Prime- Leader of the Heralds

Notes:
Norrin Radd was a member of an extremely long-lived race of humanoid aliens called the Zenn-Lavians, who had achieved virtual utopia, as disease, poverty, war, and all other social ills had been eliminated many generations ago. Radd, unlike the rest of his race, was discontent with their hedonistic lifestyle and believed that his culture had become stagnant without fulfillment in quest, yearning, and struggle. Thousands of years ago, however, the planet-devourer called Galactus came to feed upon Zenn-La, a process that would render the planet barren and lifeless, and Norrin Radd implored with his friend, a scientist and member of the Council of Scientists, to arrange a spacecraft for him so he could rendezvous with the invading ship in order to discuss peace. Norrin Radd's craft was taken aboard the home vessel of Galactus, who explained to Radd that while he meant the world no malice, he had been searching for a suitable planet for too long to begin anew. Galactus mused that if he had a herald who could scout suitable planets in advance for him, populated worlds such as Zenn-La could be spared. Radd volunteered to serve Galactus permanently as his herald in exchange for Zenn-La's safety. Galactus agreed, and used his cosmic power to transform Norrin Radd into a being capable of serving him. Galactus gave him a new name as the Silver Surfer, and immediately dispatched him to locate a planet for his master. Radd served his new master for many years while delighting in the wonders of the universe. As time passed, however, the task of finding suitable planets for Galactus became increasingly difficult. Perturbed that his Herald's moral compunctions were preventing him form performing his primary task, Galactus erased from Radd's any sense of morality.

Since that day the Herald Prime has spanned the spaceways searching for planets and leading the other heralds at Galactus' command.



Post Edited (07-16-03 20:53)

DG X(

Marvel > DC

quick question: on the power boost routine (Can raise any one of his stats or powers to this level [Shift-Z] for 5 turns), is he limited to just one stat or power, or can he boost multiple stats/powers as long as the total number of points of boosting don't exceed Shift-Z (500 points total)?

I'd say any one power at a time, up to a limit of Shift Z.



DG X(

Marvel > DC

but can he take Spider-Man..oh sorry wrong Herald



"To win without risk is to triumph without glory"

He could almost take down Wolfspider.... Looks good Warlock. I didn't know that the other heralds were about too. That a new change?



Jesus Saves! The rest of you take damage.

I like the Cosmic Conduit



"To win without risk is to triumph without glory"

Have we seen your Doc Strange? I'm curious now...

Actually,... I would like to see his Doctor Strange....

I like this Silver Surfer... kinda cool. Also one or twice Galactus mentioned that other Heralds had power cosmic given powers... but surver could Control Power cosmic himself.. hmm... or am I mistaken... it could really put Surfer at level Warlock has written him up..


Never knew much about Silver Surver beyond dsicussion on this site and write up here... Looks Cool.


And that Power Conduit is just sweet.

In my universe when galactus makes a herald they don't excape. I mean if you stop and think about it, the idea of a mere mortal resisting the will of Galactus is kinda silly. It's nice to think that all it takes is a blind sculptress and the soul can overcome, but in reality once you give yourself over to him you ARE his and that could never change.

This Silver Surfer is the Herld Prime of Galactus and has power accordingly. He is the leader of the other seven heralds and answerable only to galactus himself. He has served his master for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions more.



DG X(

Marvel > DC

Interesting take, I'm in the process of generating stats for every character, place, group etc., featured in the Handbooks and the updates. Basically my concept is to create the "Ideal Marvel Universe". Basically it will include all continuity from 1961 to 1991 (but not in all cases). The Marvel Universe as a well oiled machine, a flawless shared universe, pretty much dissapated in my opinion after Starlin's Infinity Gauntlet.

I love the MSH RPG, however I find many of the stats sorely lacking in properly portraying many of the higer powered characters. Spider-Man, Cap, Daredevil, even the FF are fine, but let's be honest, they powered down Thor and the Surfer so they could be playable in earth based, super hero team, style campaigns. However they actually possess far more power than their stats indicated. To illustrate my point, I'll give you my stats for Thor and the Surfer. This is not really an "alternate" take on them, looking at their displayed power levels in the comics, and from creators and editors comments, this is how powerful I feel they actually are. These are text versions of my Word character sheets. My actual sheets contain all the pictures from their Deluxe Handbook bios.

Silver Surfer


BACKGROUND:
Real Name: Norrin Radd
Occupation: Explorer, former herald to Galactus, former space pilot and scholar
Identity: The general public of Earth is unaware of the Silver Surfer's existence.
Legal Status: Citizen of Zenn-La
Other current aliases: None
Former aliases: None
Place of Birth: Planet Zenn-La, Deneb system, Milky Way Galaxy
Martial status: Single
Known relatives: None
Group affiliation: Former member of the Defenders
Base of operations: Mobile throughout known space.


STATISTICS:
Fighting: Amazing (50)
Agility: Unearthly (100)
Strength: Unearthly (100)
Endurance: Shift Z (500)
Reason: Excellent (20)
Intuition: Unearthly (100)
Psyche: Incredible (40)

Health: 750
Karma: 160
Resources: Poor (4)
Popularity: Excellent (20)

Age: Unknown (though he was an adult Zenn-Lavian when he became the Surfer and they have average life spans of several thousand of years)
Gender: Male
Height: 6'4"
Weight: Unknown
Skin Color: Silver
Hair Color: None
Eye Color: White

POWERS:
Body Armor: Physical and Energy attacks (Unearthly)
Invulnerability: Fire, Heat, Cold, Radiation, Toxins, Disease and Aging (Class 1000)
Enhanced Senses: Hypersensitive Hearing and Telescopic Vision (up to 1 light year away) (Shift Z)
Cosmic Awareness (Unearthly)
Telepathy and Postcognition (up to four weeks in the past, must be at the site of event) (Good)
Life Support: The Surfer does not require food, water, sleep, or air to survive (Class 1000)
Cosmic Energy Manipulation (specialized form of Energy Conversion know has "The Power Cosmic"): The Surfer has the ability to channel and manipulate huge quantities of latent cosmic energy (as well as any specific type save for magical and psionic energies) with Power rank ability and effect in LOS range. The Surfer possesses enough raw power to lay waist to large cities, continents, and perhaps even small planetoids with a full exertion of his cosmic power. (The following are Power stunts of this main Power): (Shift Y)
*Fire blasts of Power rank Force or Energy. Can boost to Shift Z for 1-10 rounds a day. (Shift Y)
*Allows the Surfer to fly even without his board up to Class 3000 speeds in space and Shift Z max in atmospheres (though he rarely does so)
*Raise any or all physical abilities (FASE) to Power rank for 1-10 hours a day. By focusing on one ability, he can raise it to Shift Z for 1-10 rounds. Raising physically abilities in this way also increases his Health score accordingly. The Surfer can also raise his Body Armor to Shift Y for 1-10 hours a day or a maximum of Shift Z for 1-10 rounds a day in this manner. (Shift Y)
*Detect Life (within 500 light years) (Shift Y)
*Detect and Absorb any form of energy with Power rank ability (Shift Y)
*Solar Regeneration (self) and Healing with Power rank ability. Has no effect on
Endurance losses (Healing only) (Shift Y)
*Dimensional Travel and Time Travel with Power rank ability (Unearthly)
*Elemental Conversion, Molecular Conversion, and Mechanical Creation with Power rank ability (Unearthly)
*Phasing and Force Field Generation with Power ranks ability (Shift Y)

Given the nature and scope of the Power Cosmic, the Surfer may develop other Power Stunts over time.

TALENTS:

Martial Arts D
Astronomy (Astronautics, Astrophysics, Stellar Cartography)
Physics (Energy and Particle Physics, Quantum Physics)
Piloting Skills (Spacecraft)

CONTACTS:
The Fantastic Four
The Avengers
The Defenders (particularly Doctor Strange, founding and former member)
Adam Warlock
Eternals of Titan
Galactus (to an extent, though it has always been strained)
Heralds of Galactus (includes Firelord, Air-Walker and the late Nova)
Alicia Masters (friend and love interest)

DESCRIPTION:
The Silver Surfer has a humanoid form but his skin is now a flexible metallic silvery material. However he can change the look of his skin to that of his original Zenn-Lavian form with his matter control powers. In this form the Surfer appears as a handsome bald male.

Norrin Radd




EQUIPMENT:
Surfboard: The Surfer uses a cosmically powered surfboard (made from the same materials as his skin and powered by the same power source by Galactus) to fly and traverse the universe. It possesses its own power supply and it allows him to fly without using any of his own energies. With the board, the Surfer can fly up to Class 5000 speeds in space and up to ShZ (500) maximum in an atmosphere. He controls it mentally. The board is made of a Class 1000 material.





HISTORY:
See Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Bio.

Limitation:
*All Karma losses to the Surfer are tripled because of his extreme nobility and the guilt from being a herald of Galactus, devourer of worlds.
*The Surfer's immense cosmic power can cause massive damage on a planetary scale, thus the Surfer almost always refrains from using his powers in full. Anytime he uses his powers in full on a living target without a Power or ability of Shift Z or higher, the result is a total loss of Karma. However when he is in open space, since the chances of collateral damage is so greatly reduced, this penalty is negated (Since the Surfer's personality was altered at the time, he did not suffer this penalty as a herald of Galactus).


Thor


BACKGROUND:
Real Name: Thor
Occupation: Asgardian god of Thunder, warrior, adventurer
Identity: The general populace of Earth knows of Thor's existence, but most do not believe he is the god who was worshipped by the Norsemen.
Legal Status: Prince of Asgard, honorary citizen of the United States of America with no criminal record.
Other current aliases: The God of Thunder
Former aliases: Donald Blake, Donner, Sigurd Jarlson, possibly Siegmund and Siegfried
Place of Birth: A cave somewhere in Norway
Martial status: Single
Known relatives: Odin (father), Jord (Gaea, mother), Frigga (adoptive mother), Balder, Tyr, Hermod, Vidar (half-brothers), Loki (adoptive brother), Gunther, Hoder (cousins) Buri (Tiwaz, great-grandfather), Bor (grandfather, possibly deceased), Vili, Ve (uncles, presumed deceased), Bestia (grandmother, presumably deceased)
Group affiliation: Avengers, Gods of Asgard
Base of operations: Asgard, New York City

STATISTICS:
Fighting: Unearthly (100)
Agility: Remarkable (30)
Strength: Shift Y (200)
Endurance: Shift X (150)
Reason: Good (10)
Intuition: Excellent (20)
Psyche: Amazing (50)

Health: 480
Karma: 80
Resources: Excellent (20)
Popularity: Monstrous (75), Unearthly (100) in Asgard

Age: Unknown ("apparent" age is late 20's to early 30's, actually age, according to some accounts, is at least 14,000 years)
Gender: Male
Height: 6'6"
Weight: 640 lbs.
Skin Color: White
Hair Color: Blonde
Eye Color: Blue

POWERS:
Body Armor: As the son of Odin, Lord of Asgard, and Jord (Gaea), Elder goddess of the Earth, Thor's resistance to injury is greater than those of the vast majority of his race. He is greatly resistant to conventional injury. Physical and Energy attacks (Amazing)
Resistances: Thor has great resistance to extreme heat and cold of all types. He is virtually immune to terrestrial toxins. Like all Asgardians Thor is extremely long-lived (though not immortal like the Olympians). Fire, Heat, Cold, Radiation, Toxins and Aging (Unearthly)
Invulnerability: Thor is immune to all Earthly diseases. Disease (Class 1000)
Illusion Detection: Thor has developed the Power rank ability to see through illusions. (Remarkable)
Weather Control: As the Asgardian god of Thunder, Thor has the innate power to summon the elements of storm (wind, rain, thunder, lighting, and so forth). Thor has the innate mystical ability to generate weather or control existing weather with Power rank ability up to a 250-mile range. While Thor virtually always uses his powers to summon elements of storm, he is capable of performing any weather related Power Stunt. Since Thor's hammer Mjolnir possesses this same power but at a higher level, Thor almost never has to use his innate ability to generate and control weather. (Unearthly)
Berserker: "Warrior's Madness". On rare occasions (no more than three times a year), Thor enters a battle rage. During this rage, Thor's Reason and Psyche drop to Feeble (total number of points lost is 56, which is divided and added to his Strength and Fighting, 28 points each) and his Strength increases to Shift Y (228) and his Fighting to Shift X (128). The "Warrior's Madness" last for the length of combat and 10 turns after.





TALENTS:
Weapons Specialist (+2CS with Mjolnir)
Bows, Blunt Weapons, Thrown Weapons, Sharp Weapons (+1CS with all)
Wrestling (+2CS with Grappling attacks), Thrown Objects (+1CS and +1CS on Catching)
Medicine (+1CS, Emergency Medicine, First Aid, Surgery)
Mythological and Asgardian Lore (+1CS)
Leadership

CONTACTS:
Asgardian gods: Thor is the Prince of Asgard and, next to Odin, is the most revered Asgardian god. His closest contacts are:
Odin (father)
Gunther (cousin)
Frigga (adoptive mother)
Sif (friend and long-time love interest, once engaged),
Balder (half-brother)
Heimdall (close friend)
Hermod (half-brother)
Vidar (half-brother)
Hoder (cousin)
The Warriors Three (Volstagg, Hogun, and Fandral)
The Avengers (Thor is a founding member)
Hercules (and to a smaller extent the Olympian gods)
Beta Ray Bill
Gaea (mother and Elder goddess of the Earth)
Jane Foster (friend and former love interest)

DESCRIPTION:
Thor is considered, by human standards, to be extremely attractive. As a god, Thor is very muscular and is virtually perfectly proportioned. Thor is considered to be one of the most handsome Asgardian gods.

EQUIPMENT:
Mjolnir: Thor's principle weapon is the enchanted hammer named Mjolnir, one of the most formidable weapons known to man or god. Forged out of the mystical metal uru (Class 3000 material strength), whose chief properties are durability and ability to maintain enchantment, the hammer is two feet long and its handle is wrapped in leather which terminates in a thong. Besides being a nearly indestructible weapon, the hammer was given many different enchantments by Odin. The enchantments on this mystic mallet grants Thor these vast Powers:
*Throwing: The hammer will return to the exact spot from which it is thrown after striking its target. Thor can throw the hammer up to 10 areas away, with the hammer returning the following round.
*Shield: By spinning the hammer, Thor may use it as a shield of UN (100) strength.
*Flight: By throwing the hammer and grasping its leather thong, Thor can magically propel himself through the air in the semblance of flight. Just as the hammer can magically change its course in order to return to his hand when he throws it, so can it be influenced by its wielder to change its course while it is in his grasp in flight. The precise manner in which Thor "steers" his hammer while in flight is not known, however Thor has been observed to reach Interplanetary levels of speed in space. Thor can fly up to Class 1000 speeds in space and ShZ (500) maximum in a atmosphere by throwing the hammer and holding on to the thong. By spinning it, he can hover in place.
*Weather Control: The hammer provides ShY (200) rank Weather Control (up to 1,200-mile range). As with his own natural ability, Thor has all Power Stunts but virtually always summons elements of the storm.
* Dimensional Travel: The hammer can open interdimensional portals, allowing its wielder to travel to other dimensions, such as from Earth to Asgard. (It is not known how Thor locates the dimension to which he wishes to travel.) By spinning the hammer, Thor can move between adjacent dimensions with UN (100) ability.
*Magic Detection: The hammer can alert its wielder to the presence of magic with UN (100) ability.
*Blunt Attack: Thor may inflict up to ShZ (500) blunt damage with Mjolnir.
*Light Blast: Blinding blast of light of UN (100) intensity.
*Energy Absorption: The hammer can absorb energy blasts of up to Class 1000 intensity which must be redirected the following round, in any direction.
*Health Drain: The hammer can fire draining blasts of mystical energy with UN (100) ability. Thor can slay even gods with this power (Thor loses all Karma if he uses this Power on any living being).
*Mystical Energy Blasts: Thor can project various forms of mystical energy blasts from the hammer of UN (100) force or energy.
*Life Support: While in space (or some other such airless environment) the hammer provides Thor with ShZ (500) Life Support allowing him to breath freely (Thor can naturally go long periods without food and water, but must still breath and eventually sleep.).
*Worthiness: No living being can lift the hammer from the ground unless he or she is worthy. Hence, so far as is known, only Odin, Thor, and Beta Ray Bill are able to lift Mjolnir. Apparently no one with out superhuman strength can lift the hammer whether he or she is worthy or not. The wielder (other than Thor or Odin) must have 1000+ Karma, RM (30) Strength, and positive Popularity. A non-living object must have at least RM (30) Strength to lift Mjolnir.





Belt of Strength: Thor possesses an enchanted belt of strength, which doubles his strength while he wears it. However, Thor feels physically drained after wearing the belt of strength. When wearing this enchanted belt, Thor's Strength is ShZ (500) (increased strength is added to Thor's Health score for a total of 730). However, Thor's Strength and Endurance are reduced by -3CS for one week after removing the belt (MN (75) Strength and IN (40) Endurance).

Asgardian Armor: Thor sometimes wears a suit of mystical armor that provides him with ShX (150) protection from Physical and Energy attacks.

Iron Gauntlets: Thor sometimes wears a pair of strong iron gauntlets of a Class 1000 material strength metal that covers Thor's arms to the shoulder.

Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder: Thor at times drives a chariot-like vehicle pulled by two large enchanted goats, Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder. These two goats possess unusually high intelligence, can run at great speed on land and in the air, and can traverse dimensional barriers. Thor keeps the chariot and the goats in Asgard. Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder's stats are:

Fighting: RM (30)
Agility: GD (10)
Strength: AM (50)
Endurance: UN (100)
Reason: PR (4)
Intuition: GD (10)
Psyche: GD (10)

Health: 190
Karma: 24

Powers:
Lift Support: Shift Z (500)
Dimensional Travel: UN (100)
Flight: Class 1000 in space, Shift Z max in an atmosphere
Hyper-Running: IN (40)






HISTORY:
See Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe bio.

Limitations:
* As a powerful god, Thor possesses great destructive power on Earth and thus almost never uses the full extent of his might on "mortal" or lesser foes. Anytime Thor uses the full extent of his Strength or Mjolnir's Weather Control (not his innate ability) against a living target without a Power or ability of Shift Y or higher, the result is a total loss of Karma. Since the effect of a full force hit from Mjolnir is so massive (Shift Z Blunt damage), Thor loses all Karma if he inflicts maximum damage on any living opponent without an ability or power of Shift Z or higher. Also, Thor loses all Karma if he uses Mjolnir's Weather Control in full while in Earth's atmosphere unless he in some way can insure that all living beings of lower than Shift Y Powers or abilities are protected from the affects of this Power. These limitations only apply on Earth or another similarly inhabited world. While in Asgard or another similar realm, Thor suffers no such penalties.


For me, the Limitations on these two charactes explains why they can "coast" against mortal villians, yet destroy planetoids or create planet wide storms in space in other accounts. I think at times people forget that the Surfer can simply fire Incredible, or Remarkable blasts if he wanted to (and most likely this is the case most of the time on Earth). These guys never go around displaying their power in full as we all know.

Also, I never found Thor's fights with the likes of Mr. Hyde or Cobra interesting because I was always thinking "Thor could end this in an instant". Thor can take Surtur to one knee and cause Ego the Living Planet pause, so why would he have trouble with Ultron clones? Actually their is a great issue of Avengers where Thor admits that he holds back among his mortal friends so he does not take all the glory.

Basically I feel that all those characters stated as being able to lift OVER 100 tons, should be around Shift Y to as accuratly as possible, given game mechanics, display their strength level. My reasoning is that, well, even at Shift Z the most any hero could lift is 1,000 tons in the game anyway. It's not like a GM has to worry about a PC moving planets around. Simply, if Thor WANTED to take many villians out quickly he could...but he doesn't. Also, I think the Shift X, Y, and Z levels are simply underused. Unearthly doesn't have to be the limit for fun gaming. That's what the COSMIC villians are for. Just my take on things. Also, I gave the likes of Thor, Herc etc. a slight nudge to Endurance to Shift X. And the likes of Loki a nudge up to Unearthly. These are things that looked more accurate to me, however there is really no basis for these. Save that I feel Loki may have developed a higher Endurance since sorcery can at times be taxing. I know, I think about this stuff a bit too much. ;)

As far as the Surfer, I guess the Shift Z Endurance came from looking at Binary's stats where she had that Endurance. It made perfect sense to me to give heralds, or most any character that can travel through hyperspace, that level of Endurance. Why would the Surfer only have Unearthly Endurance anyway when he has a relatively limitless access to cosmic energy? Second, and simply, it helps make the Surfer's Health score larger, and to me, helps portray how tough he would be to beat accuratly. This is a guy who made short work of Orion in a crossover by John Byrne, the Surfer is far more powerful than the casual fan realizes.

I'm not even going to debate the trend of powering up certain characters around here anymore, but I have to respond to this.

"I love the MSH RPG, however I find many of the stats sorely lacking in properly portraying many of the higer powered characters."

I thought the benchmarks of say MN and UN were based upon Surfer, Thor, Hulk and the like, just as AM agility was pretty much based on Spidey. If not, then who ARE they for?

Do I really think 5 punches from Cap equals 1 from Thor? No, but there is a certain suspension of disbelief in any game.

And if you're saying the characters are powered down for the game, why even bother restating them for the game? Which will you use in your campaigns? Is NPC Thor supposed to be tougher than PC Thor?

Gotta admit, I do like the detail and depth you achieved, though.

Gunther said: "This is not really an "alternate" take on them, looking at their displayed power levels in the comics, and from creators and editors comments, this is how powerful I feel they actually are."

That is an alternate take on them. It's your opinion that these are the stats they should have. I too will echo the thoughts on the good in depth detail and background given to this work.



MSH Classic RPG System
[rivendell.fortunecity.com]

My stats for these characters represent not what's seen in the comics but what I need them to be in my universe.

Gunther, I think your stats might be a little much.



DG X(

Marvel > DC

If I remember, Thor was a NPC hero in the campaign set with Spider-Man, Cap. America, Cap. Marvel, and the Thing... and the Judge had free rein to alter rolls with him. :)

Still, the new stats are interesting...

Sorry, I ment that they where not "alternate" in the sense that they where Thor and Surfer from alternate dimensions where Thor is more akin to the mythological character, the Surfer is still a herald of Galactus etc...

It's just my opinion on how to use the game system to get them as close as possible to what I've observed in the comics. There is nothing wrong with the Thor on this site, it's fine for the fan who may not be that big of a Thor fan and is more a fan of the Avengers as a team, it's just that since he is one of my favorite characters, and since I like cosmic stuff, I wanted to expand on him, and the Surfer, to show them in a bit more detail.

I really didn't understand the comment about "NPC Thor and PC Thor". In my Marvel Universe, this IS Thor. If Thor is a NPC or PC it matters not, his stats are these. As a Judge, you can lay a rule down that he can only pull punches if you want and use these stats as you would any other Thor stats with no problem. I know it makes no sense that Thor is just one of the gang in the Avengers, but then again this has been explained. The main reason he is in the Avengers is because he likes the members as friends and enjoys their company, not because he views many of their foes as a challenge. He is not mystically powered down by God in the pages of Avengers, and then mystically given more power in the pages of Thor so he can go up against Mangog and Surtur. ;)

The original Thor, for instance, only had Exellent Body Armor and Typical against energy attacks. I have no idea who decided Thor was that fragile, but he could never stand toe to toe with the Hulk. Heck, even Spider-Man could hurt him. This led me to believe since the first time I saw those stats that they "powered him down" for game purposes. And I understand their reasoning. Most games are going to be in that mid-range level with powerful cosmic beings and gods showing up almost never. Many, and I enjoy them as well, are good old street level mysteries and such.

I'm of the opinion that Thor and the Surfer are not interesting in fights unless they are going up against Thanos, evil heralds, gods, demons etc. Yes, these stats won't allow the Sinister Six, the U-Foes, or Hydra to pose them much of a threat, but they shouldn't in the first place honestly. For instance, I have a rule that unless the Avengers are facing something as powerful or more powerful than Thor, he is conviently "In Asgard".

Superman seems to be the only character where it's deemed ok to give him these enormous stats (which he should have of course) and yet pit him against much weaker foes. To play Superman like he is presented in comics most of the time is a game all about pulling punches. It's just my opinion that Thor and the Surfer should have a epic playground to play in, as Dardevil and the Punisher need a down and dirty, street level setting.

Sorry, I figured the Npc thing wouldn't quite make sense. Scratch it. I just wondered if you'd let a player run your powered up versions.

As for Thor never being in danger against Avengers foes, come on. I've seen him trounced plenty of times. And he was not holding back.
Yeah Spider man could punch him, but that's why he has his hammer/shield power. And Ex body armor is hardly fragile.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think the stats are meant to represent every single moment of great power shown by a character in every single comic written. I think they're more of an on average type thing. Hulk doesn't always lift mountains.

As for Superman, the closest thing to him in the Marvel RPG and comics is Hyperion who doesn't have a stat over UN.

[www.classicmarvel.com]

I am gonna have to go with Gunther heere, because I too always thought some characters (Thor and Surfer among them) were always to low in stats for the game.
To use the example above with the body armor, There is no way Thor could have had them brawls he has had with characters like the Hulk and had Ex.20 BA. Their are alot of other examples for several other characters but it's pointless to argue them.
My list of characters that should be stronger is a little longer than just 2 but, most people have their own opinions on them, some with facts to back their opinions and others just because they don't like the character ( and I am sure that there will be one or two Thor haters posting here, You know who you are...lol).
Gunther I would like to see your take on Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom.



" I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. "

True, we all have preferences, but my dislike of Thor doesn't affect my view on the power levels he usually shows.
If that were true, I would give Wasp and Gambit Feeble everything.



Post Edited (07-25-03 15:58)

I disagree, according the almighty handbook, Thor's Asgardian flesh is a mere 3x denser than human flesh. (or was that 5x?).

Many things can account for thor's ability to "tough out" extended battles with Hulk and the like.

First of all, not all heroes, nor even all villains use their full strength with every punch. Hulk may have UNE strength, but does that mean he will use all UNE power. If Hulk is strongest one there is, wouldn't a mere 50% make do?

Second, Thor, as well as many characters are loaded up with invulnerabilites, heat, cold, fire, electricity, etc. This can be used to explain
how Thor can survive an active vulcano with EXC body armor. Ok sure, some geologist with a pHD might know that there is a physical force exerted by the inner earth that should do AMZ force Damage a second, but
does the avg writer know?



Someday there will be no racism.
Thats the day aliens will attack.
Then we will all hate green people.

The easiest explanation is the game comes from the comics, not vice versa.

I agree that not every hit is full power in the comics. The game doesn't factor in the exhaustion of using one's full str over and over in combat.

Also, in a boxing match most punches only connect somewhat.