Is there a 'General Timeline' in Marvel Universum ?

i mean an in character timetable, with the events of superheroes ?

because if someone not has read all the comics, but wants to play Marvel, this would be quite useful.

i found on wiki and other websites some timetable, but i can't put them together, and that's annoying.

i can't decide what event happened in what year and how are they releated.
x-men, avengers, spiderman and so are all in the same country, in the same city, but i don't know a normal citizen when could read about them in the news... or anywhere where they have access.

any help ?

the closest you'll get to anything official is the space launch that Reed Richards and his companions took that led to their gaining abilities of the Fantastic Four happened 13 years ago in continuity, and everything else that happened after that occurs on a sliding scale.

There are other benchmarks though that are firm historicly:

Captain America [Rogers] fought in world war II

Punisher fought in Vietnam

but most other things, like Iron man creating his first armor in South East Asia is up in the air.

more of a specific/ anal chronology

neat site though
[www.chronologyproject.com]

Also this main event time line...


[en.wikipedia.org]

i know this site, but i can't use it. these abbreviations, dates and issue numbers doesn't mean anything to me.

wikipedia:
i know this list, too. it's not too useful, because the years listed is the dates of when was released the comic book. the text says all events can be fitted to a 15 year period, but how ? nothing helps to create monthly or daily dates to an event, and then search the other groups same date to merge them.

e.g.: if Spiderman in 5th July Year 5 saves the day, but his enemies destroys a whole cityblock, then the Avengers/DareDevil/etc. at the same date must see what happened, because they live in the same city. and vica versa.

how can you solve this ?

this is my problem.

or should i give up and live without a correct timing, and i should write a total timeline for at least 3 year past and 1-2 year future on my own? *crap*

There is no official date by date timeline. You'd have as much luck finding the fountain of youth.

G.A.W. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also this main event time line...
>
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> arvel_Universe

I think that's when the issues came out rather than their chronological happenings.

Agreed. The best thing to do is outline a timeline for your own game. That way at least your players know what the history is with in the campaign.

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!

I do wish Marvel had better oversight on the continuity, so that it wasn't so confusing what events happened when. Especially when they had events that clearly affected the entire earth or at least NYC such that it should have had some kind of acknowledgemet in every Marvel title.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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That simply ins't possible. Every family of titles has different editors. Also, an issue in a comic can equate to an hour, a day, 4 weeks, or months worth of time. Plus comics acknowledge changes in presidency and things like that, which can't be fit into an indistinct timeframe for each issue. If every issue were 24 hours like in 24 that might be possible, but it's not.

That doesn't make it impossible for at least a nod to events going on that should impact what's going on in a certain area. The Hulk shows up and trashes NYC there ought to be at least some reflection of that in Daredevil for example, especially when he's shown in the WWH titles. Kang shows up and conquers the earth should see Spider-man in his titles having to deal with fallout from that for those fitting inside that period. If it were that impossible you'd just about be going the DC route with 52 universes hosting each different title for a character.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Although I get what capo is saying in the difficulty of multiple titles and editors but I agree with you Nightmask at least to the general continuity-

as you all probably know ( if your old and read about super hero comic companies ) MARVEL was and got well known for putting the details and events of one book into another book in the 60's through the 80's.-- when spiderman sprained his arm it was shown when he guested in another book and that is a small detail. DC was known for forgetting ( or ignoring ) something that happened 3 issues before.- during there 50's-70's time.

of course back in the day having a "Shared Universe" was important to the company ( marvel ) and easier because there were less editors handling the roster of books.

Jim Shooter made it a point to have solid comtinuity with all the hero books ( but not perfect continuity )- but I can't blame anyone for not getting it perfect especailly with 1940's hero history.

things changed for Marvel and continuity around 1996ish and got bad around... well i'll let Nightmask and Capocastillo year of the new continuity decline. maybe 2003??

Continuity started declining in the 90s (with the occasional continuity problem earlier but not very often or flashy for the most part), but really kicked into high gear in the 2000's. Many retcons have been done that trash continuity company-wide and little if any concern for the damage. Consider for example the Kree-Shi'ar war that resulted in the events of the Nega Bomb, destruction of the Kree Empire, and later rise of the evolved Kree the Ruul thanks to the Forever Crystal. Some decision regarding the desire to return to the 'good old days' of the Kree Empire meant they used Genis-Vell to do a 'reboot' of the Marvel universe of Earth-616 that changed 'just a few things', one of them being eliminating the events that created the Ruul and the Nega bomb destroying the Kree Empire. However that means that the maxi storyarc where Earth was temporarily turned into a prison planet for every criminal in the various galaxies never happened because the Ruul never existed and everything that spawned off of those events never occured and would have caused a cascade of changes that never get seen. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they go 'well the reason Hepzibah is an all-white elf instead of the anthro skunk she used to be is Genis-Vell thought she'd look nicer that way and remade her entire species just to suit his (the writer's) whim'. The even worse retcon with Spider-man's been already covered in other threads but is clearly the worst all-time finger to continuity Marvel's ever done.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Before I chime in, I want to make clear a division between certain forms of continuity.

The first is there are two types of continuity one should address. The first is issue-to-issue continuity, and the second is editorial initiatives. These things need to be looked at seperately because they are handled in different ways and impact issues in different ways.

Issue-to-issue continuity is probably easier to deal with, although can become impossible to achieve. For instance, back in the 1st Wolverine limited series by claremont and miller, Wolvie was absent from the X-men while he was off on his solo adventure. Examples like spidey's sprained arm fit into this category. This only works though if all of the books impacted by such an event are coming out on time, and if the editors between those families of titles have solid communication happening. However, if the issue of New Avengers is coming out on time, but Mighty Avengers is running late because the artist spends too much time on world of warcraft, while Spider-man titles are focussing on certain stories and villains because a new movie is coming out, it becomes dificult to make continuity analogous between all of the books. While one Editor is waiting to hear from his counterpart in charge of another family of titles, he's holding up the writer from finalizing a script because he needs to make sure that certain story elements are added in. Meanwhile, the illustrator, who has the most time consuming job of anyone involved in the comic creation process is sitting idle waiting for a script. At the same time, fans are bitchin and moanin becvause books aren't coming out on schedule. The Editor has to make a choice. And that choice is usually, "@#$%& it. i need my book to come out on time. If it's not clear whether or not Spiderman is sporting the red & blue, or the black and white will have to wait for another issue." and tells the writer to finish up his script so the book he's responsible for overseeing comes out on time. This kind of continuity has to be given some berth otherwise you'd never get to read your comics to begin with.

The second type of continuity shake up usually comes from Editorial Mandate. Like Joe Q wanting Spidey and MJ not being married anymore, but also resetting Spidey to where he's pretty much a teenager. Well this is the kind of story that the boss wants told, no ifs, ands, or buts. J. Michael Strascynski was very vocal about not wanting to tell the story he was told he had to tell. But he's got a job, and a contract, and when push came to shove, he did his job and did it as best he could given the framework he had to implement. These are the stories that suffer the most because Editorial is making a call that maybe even the writer doesn't want to pursue. Now will anyone ever really care if the events in Maximum Security are impacted by these kinds of changes? Maybe, maybe not. It's easier to pull off this kind of mandate if the characters affected really only have a small fan base or cult following. Making the changes to the Kree or the Slingers will only generate a minor backlash that won't even be noticed in a financial sense. But doing it to flagship characters, well, we all know how we felt about the clone saga, or One More Day. These changes can be handled though, as fan backlash usually makes such changes temporary [which is to say they only last a few years]. Sometimes though, these changes stick forever, and we either accept, or we stop reading comics.

issue to issue continuity I don't have a problem with- ever really because many of us will read comics ( even back issues ) out of "perfect" order.


It's what I call established HISTORY continuity and it's constant erosion that I have a problem with- as you say Editorial mandate.

DC for years did poorly with both types of continuity and Marvel was pretty good with History continuity over all- ( as was brought up by capo awhile ago the 1940's 50's Timely era had it's problems but Roy Thomas did a good job intergrateing it ) but as you said( other thread ) capo before- there has always been continuity problems in comics- even Marvel in there prime but it has gotten worse...

As Nightmask said- and I agree - the 1990's was the noticable drop-off.

I say one reason more than any other was the factor- more than even new and young writers and editors who don't give a @#$%&+laziness. ~~~~~~~~ DROPPING SALES ACROSS THE BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They hoped for boosts in "event stories" that changed what us fans thought was real and true.

Well someone's always got to do something that he feels will leave his mark that everyone will remember and if they can't with the present they'll screw with the past especially if it fries someone else's work that they don't like. Just look at the neat work of the SS-Formula for Captain America that had him as the original and only test subject until recent retcons added in multiple previous test subjects with Steve Rogers the only really successful recipient and muddying up the waters as a result. Heck they even did a retcon deal in the FF where after an encounter with a cosmic entity Reed goes back to the big bang, becomes part of it, and is the reason everyone in the FF has the particular powers that they've got.

It's not like anyone seems to get to keep a non-complicated history anymore, they just have to pile in retcons and embellishments as they think everything has to be complex. With the X-men we've seen that the Professor really had a huge database of mutants and left hundreds to suffer to pick a socially perfect looking group to present to the public, enslaved a sentient computer system, and had a hidden group of interim X-men that died and he covered up the deaths of. At least with the Hawkeye retcon of Trickshot made sense, since really why would someone who's a master of swords like Swordsman be teaching mastery of the bow to someone like Hawkeye?

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

In fairness, since 1999, Marvel totally turned their business around and made it super profitable. After the collectors glut of 90 - 93/94, and the subsequent crash of comics, which caused Marvel to file Chapter 11, Marvel turned the tables.

Since 1999, Marvel comics have been selling in the best numbers they've had since the collector's glut crash, not even mentioning video games and movies. Marvel has also held the highest market share out of any of their competetors for years now. So Marvel /is/ doing /something/ right.

However, i don't feel the quality of the Marvel product is as strong as it was in say, 2001, when Bill jemas was president and Joe Q was editor in chief and the pair were working in tandem. Some of the books that were coming out not only had the adult sensibility I enjoy, but they were doing things that were experimental and groundbreaking. Without Bill Jemas, Joe Quesada is a bit heavier handed with his mandates, and backslides into some irritating fanboy crap [secret invasion anyone?], but all in all, reading marvel titles now, by and large, is much easier than it was back in 95-97.

I knew that sales improved in 2000 and with movie sucess with blade helped jump satrt it- I was commenting on the start of continuity/recton erosion of the early 90's. that was when the pendulum swung ideologically towards Historical changes.

They were trying everything in the 90's to boost poor sales and some of this stuff is still with us. changed continuity( rectons ) multiple covers, "event" long term story arcs- i'm not judging the quality but it's here today.

And sales of comics from 2007 is up from 1997 but it does not come close to where it was at before the CRASH.

Some comic insiders say it will never recover where it once was.-- but games- movies- internet- and the like to reach alot of people it just doesn't translate into comic book sales. i realize it does not need to.