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Cosmic Awareness & Danger Sense Questions
Posted by Nightmask
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Been pondering this for a short while and thought it'd be helpful getting feedback on some considerations for Cosmic Awareness and Danger Sense. Considering how Cosmic Awareness is said to provide benefits in combat even without a power stunt wouldn't one be able to develop the equivalent of a Danger Sense using the Cosmic Awareness? Captain Mar-Vell was often shown after he gained the power of being able to detect and avoid or counter attackers due to his being aware of everything around him. Gaining the full range of benefits of a Danger Sense would seem quite possible with suitable practice of one's Cosmic Awareness.
On the flip-side could a Danger Sense be considered a limited-focus version of Cosmic Awareness, only instead of giving access to all knowledge it's narrowly focused to sifting through all that knowledge to warn of dangers real and potential to the hero or villain with it? Given the standard definition for a DS includes a measure of short-range precognitive ability and sifting through such future possibilities sifting through information from a CA perspective seems compatible. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Danger Sense can easily be developed as a stunt from either Cosmic Awareness or Precognition, IMO, as it shares similarities with both, though it's much more limited in scope.
Danger Sense could also be stunted, to a degree, from Telepathy, IMO. Though, in this case, the Danger Sense likely only triggers in response to hostile thoughts and the like, thus leaving the hero potentially vulnerable to truly mindless foes or inanimate traps and such. Quack, damn you...
When I'm Judging, I guess I consider both Omni-Knowledge and Precognition as "minor versions" of Cosmic Awareness...with Danger Sense being a minor version of Precognition, itself. That puts it way down on the "foreshadowing food chain", in my games.
That said, I think I would allow a player to "Power Stunt" Danger Sense with Cosmic Awareness (because, in my games, that's "tuning the power down", in effect). I wouldn't let a player go the other way, though. To me, that's just allowing the player to circumvent the full Karma payment for buying what is essentially a more powerful and versatile Power (and a weighty 2x one, to boot). Of course, that's just in my game. The Rook
On the other hand, let a player of dubious scruples "unlock" his Danger Sense and let it expand to Cosmic Awareness.
When he finally drifts out of his catatonic state, decades later, he may or may not even remember why he unlocked it in the first place. Seriously. Cosmic Awareness is one of the game-altering uber-powers. It shouldn't be taken lightly, since it's supposed to represent omniscience. Omniscience is not for the faint of heart, and woe be the player in my game who thinks that it's just an easy "I know everything" power. I tend to enforce play with Cosmic Awareness as either "an uncontrolled series of flashing insights which may or may not be your own insanity" or as "controlling this power is hard, and not without some risk--are you SURE you wanna use it?" YMMV, of course, but I should also mention that the scope and power levels of my games tends to be smaller. If everyone in your game is of the Unearthly variety, then perhaps it's not a stretch to stunt Cosmic Awareness from Danger Sense.
Redman II Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Danger Sense can easily be developed as a stunt > from either Cosmic Awareness or Precognition, IMO, > as it shares similarities with both, though it's > much more limited in scope. Well I can see it being a far more limited version of Cosmic Awareness, although not sure how limited it qualifies as in regards to Precognition since the Precognition's short-range combat power stunt only gives you one-turn warning no matter the power rank of the Precognition, whereas Danger Sense can give you as much as a minute or more warning depending on the power rank. Admittedly the combat precognition might not give you as much warning but it does help let you know exactly what's going to happen in the next turn provided you don't do anything to change the events. > Danger Sense could also be stunted, to a degree, > from Telepathy, IMO. Though, in this case, the > Danger Sense likely only triggers in response to > hostile thoughts and the like, thus leaving the > hero potentially vulnerable to truly mindless foes > or inanimate traps and such. Professor X has on occasion demonstrated a Danger Sense power stunt, although never really established in the comics. It allowed him and the Starjammers to survive in the limited series where he was trapped in space with them and was briefly given a measure of the Phoenix's power in the last issue. Not as helpful as you note for things without minds that'd be a threat but still quite useful. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
The Rook Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > When I'm Judging, I guess I consider both > Omni-Knowledge and Precognition as "minor > versions" of Cosmic Awareness...with Danger Sense > being a minor version of Precognition, itself. > That puts it way down on the "foreshadowing food > chain", in my games. > > That said, I think I would allow a player to > "Power Stunt" Danger Sense with Cosmic Awareness > (because, in my games, that's "tuning the power > down", in effect). I wouldn't let a player go the > other way, though. To me, that's just allowing > the player to circumvent the full Karma payment > for buying what is essentially a more powerful and > versatile Power (and a weighty 2x one, to boot). > > Of course, that's just in my game. > > The Rook Hmmmm, what about a 'trade-in' so to speak, where the Danger Sense is effectively upgraded to Cosmic Awareness with appropriate Karma expenditures? Say the person has Amazing Danger Sense (Duplicate Boy got lucky and permanently copied Spider-Man's Danger Sense or someone else's) and spends the karma for adding power of Amazing rank to replace the Danger Sense with Cosmic Awareness instead? "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
So you basically put down excessive restrictions on Cosmic Awareness if someone should happen to choose it so it's worthless because they can't ever use it without suffering for it. If you hate it that much just say so and don't let it in the game, easier than giving it a pile of restraints.
I don't see where game scale is that relevant, someone with Excellent Cosmic Awareness for example isn't going to succeed very often at anything but a Green feat and can't risk more than five attempts in a day without needing a sanity check, and while the check to remain sane is on the better side of 50% if he's got a decent Reason those are still risky odds to try that sixth or more try. At that level it's really best reserved for its automatic detection bonus and bonus CS in combat than trying to solve the Mysteries Of The Universe (otherwise known as 'What the GM is up to'). "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
In my own games, I almost never have a problem with this kind of "trade-in"...provided the following criteria are in place:
a) The "trade-in" remains in context with the overriding game concept in place (i.e.: is there a logical and legitimate reason why the character in question should be developing new powers? Does it create a problem with my perceived "game balance"?) b) Established game mechanics are being adhered to (i.e.: are the appropriate Karma penalties/Advancement Fund expeditures being applied? Is this a thinly-veiled attempted at rules circumvention or a "legit" move by the player to alter his character, using the proper MSH guidelines for advancement?) c) Player and Judge are in agreement (after reviewing the changes to be made) that such a major revision to the character is either good or neutral for the Campaign's health and that the "new" character is amenable to both parties. In your example, it would occur to me that I'd let the player go for it. Of course, there's not a whole lot of context in your generic example, so I can't really apply my rules on "game context/balance"...but I have a much bigger problem with the "rules circumvention" angle that some players seem intent on going for, anyway. One comment I'd like to make though: I am totally with Bobby Zero on the concept of Cosmic Awareness being one of the BIG powers in the game (maybe right up there with Time Travel and Reality Alteration, for my money). In my 20+ years running and playing MSH, I can only seriously say that I've had one encounter with a character with Cosmic Awareness. That would be the Rachel Summers incarnation of Phoenix (an old X-Men Campaign in which she had completely embraced her mother's legacy). An abbreviated anecdotal overview of that experience follows: Rachel was the singularly most frightening character that I've ever seen in the entirety of my role-playing career...and she was on our side. A lot of that has to do with her Cosmic Awareness power. The kind of access to continuum-level information that she was capable of made her seem more like God than a human being. Coupled with the vast (almost limitless, really) power at her disposal...she was like an elemental force of nature. I clearly remember her once remarking to my character that she had her "finger on the "on/off button that is life and death". I remember her once being driven to tears at the sight of Galactus, explaining that "when you can comprehend his totality, you can understand how beautiful he is". I remember her looking up at a night sky and telling me in a wistful voice "I can see every one, you know". My Judge at the time really did a masterful job with her. She was actually legitimately terrifying at times. I'm talking "Call of Cthulhu-Sanity-Bending" terrifying, too. Somewhere down the road in that game (probably underscoring my borderline-insanity), I got suckered into playing the "Scott Summers" role and wound up in a romantic relationship with that character--so I got the individual pleasure of having a ringside-seat view of what she was capable of doing. That was a truly beautiful campaign, undoubtably...but I think I'm actually still somewhat traumatized (ten years later) by the sheer power that Rachel wielded in those moments. My point? Does Duplicate Boy (in your example) really want Cosmic Awareness? Sometimes it's true, what they say about "only fools going where angels fear to tread".... The Rook (a little shook up from remembering that game, actually)
Oh I don't deny that Cosmic Awareness is big ticket power, and gives whoever has it potential access to all knowledge, limited by their Power rank in Cosmic Awareness and Reason feat when it comes to comprehending that information when trying to access it. I just don't think it in and of itself can be seen as majorly unbalancing if kept within the boundaries listed for it. I just view it by itself in terms of the original Captain Mar-Vell who faired just fine with it and existed at peace in that zen-like way he developed. Later portrayals of the power in the comics always paints it so negatively, they never include the characters like Mar-vell who were fully adjusted in the use of the power.
That seems like a particularly scary campaign, including such a powerful entity in the group, although the finger statement applies to such a cosmic-level entity without any need for it to have even a drop of Cosmic Awareness. It does seem like your GM was a masterful storyteller to have that kind of impression on you all this time later. Well the Duplicate Boy example he might not want or he might, would depend on whether his character had the mindset to handle that increase in knowledge. Something that people forget is that Mastermind for a time was given Cosmic Awareness by the Phoenix after their encounter (it was what left him temporarily in a coma as he was unprepared for it). When he did eventually recover it did leave him a changed man. True his way of expressing that change was warped by his trouble relating to people but when he died from the Legacy Virus he did genuinely try to make amends to Jean Grey at the end. GM-wise the power's disliked for the same reason Precognition is, particularly a high power rank of Precognition as it causes a lot of extra work for the GM to handle the possibility of the PC discovering things the GM wanted to keep secret and requiring a lot of rework. Some don't mind that and enjoy being tested others prefer things that don't require a lot of reworking of things they've planned, especially if forced to on the fly. I've always wondered why Post-Cognition wasn't just as dislike though, since it lets you peer into the past and learn all sorts of originally unknown or hidden information. Heck as noted in several old short stories in science fiction what is the past really? Just view back a second and you're almost seeing an event as it happens. Almost clairvoyance and clairaudience rolled into one without the problems of being detected. The thoughts here though is really more for the theoretical and potential options available rather than whether or not a particular GM considers it too powerful or not restricted enough, and just focus on 'would this work or not?'. It does end up fairly hard at times determining what's simply a creative use of the rules to expand on a character and what's crossing the line and getting something too cheap. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Nightmask,
At the risk of sounding a little arrogant, my theory on "blocking powers" for players goes a little like this: if I'm forced to do that, it's an admission of a failing on my part. It means I'm not good enough of a Judge to handle them. Since I like to consider myself an experienced Judge...it would be too far great a blow to my precious ego to allow that...so...I never block powers from players. Let 'em bring their best against my best, I say. ;) That was meant with a little sarcasm, by the way. Please don't mistake that as me saying I'm "super-Judge". :) Now, more to your point, I think that--just like there's "levels" to other Powers--so it goes with Cosmic Awareness. So, yeah, there's "Mar-Vell-style Zen-level Cosmic Awareness"...and then there's "Phoenix-style Scary-level Comic Awareness"...and then there's the infinite amount of points on the curve in-between. In that, the power isn't unbalancing (there's that word again) in and of itself. It's where you place it on the curve, in relation to everything else in the game-universe, that makes it potentially ugly. As to the Mar-Vell example you mentioned...sure he managed to handle it. But I would also remind you that he was an alien--with a whole different mental make-up (physically speaking as well as "psyche-wise") than that of us humans. Did that make it easier for him to handle such an awesome (and potentially mind-shattering) power? Who knows. But it's something to think about. There's also the thought that he died relatively young. There was still a lot of time left in his life for him to come unglued before he eventually succumbed to cancer. I'm still not saying that these things would have happened...but they might have. So it's hard to say with any authority that he handled Cosmic Awareness better or worse than anybody else. We can say that he seemed to be doing very well. But as to how it would have played out in the long run...we can only speculate. You said: That seems like a particularly scary campaign, including such a powerful entity in the group, although the finger statement applies to such a cosmic-level entity without any need for it to have even a drop of Cosmic Awareness. It does seem like your GM was a masterful storyteller to have that kind of impression on you all this time later. All true. And yes, to date, that was the best game I have ever participated in. One day, I might even post my proantagonist from that Campaign. Still, I'm a bit shy. maybe one day.... I remember your example of what happened to Mastermind well. I would counter that--although you're correct, that is precisely what happened in the books--it was poor writing and a gross mischaracterization of Jason Wyngarde. Still, that's just my opinion and really not very relevant to the argument. I've always wondered why Post-Cognition wasn't just as dislike though, since it lets you peer into the past and learn all sorts of originally unknown or hidden information. Heck as noted in several old short stories in science fiction what is the past really? Just view back a second and you're almost seeing an event as it happens. Almost clairvoyance and clairaudience rolled into one without the problems of being detected. I think Omni-Knowledge is even worse, really. Not only do you get all the benefits you noted--you get them real-time. The Rook
I won't speak for everyone, but Precognition is one of the most difficult powers to effectively Judge in a game. Everything you offer as the "future" has to become a reality--yes, I know, the visions can be symbolism or unclear, but still--or the power isn't really a power. And characters will either try to change the futures they don't like (and it's the Judge's job to make them happen anyhow) or will think they can coast in on a future they like (not realizing that the future they want requires them to work for it). In any event, it can become a total clusterf!%@$#!!--more often than not, the precog becomes the pivotal character in every adventure, actively removing other people's turn in the spotlight.
That's not to say Precognition can't be played well--but it does present some significant challenges. Postcognition is powerful, yes. If you're running a detective story, they're almost as bad as telepaths, since you can't have many secrets. The difference with Postcognition is that what's happened has happened. You can offer up great story hooks and the like to your postcog, but you get to control what parts of the story they see. Also, you don't have to make something happen--with a Postcog, they get the facts, and it's their job to take the ball and run.
The Great Bobby Zero said: And characters will either try to change the futures they don't like (and it's the Judge's job to make them happen anyhow) or will think they can coast in on a future they like (not realizing that the future they want requires them to work for it).
Bobby, I often wonder about this issue. I have never had a Precog in my games before, so I've never had to address this before, but let me pose you a question: if the future is immutable, then what's the sense in being able to see it? It occurs to me that, in your example, Player X (the Precog) forsees a potential problem--then moves to head it off at the pass (as you would expect a player to do). But then you, as the Judge, semi-intervene to make the "vision of the future" come to pass, anyhow. Doesn't that just set the Precog up for failure after failure? That doesn't sound like a character that's much fun to play, at all. To me, if you have a Precog player, it would seem to me that the future must be made to be mutable. What's your take on that? The Rook
I do find it nice that you try to allow all the powers into your campaign and try to rise to the challenge instead of just block certain ones just because.
I don't believe there's any quantifiable difference between Captain Mar-Vell's Cosmic Awareness and that of the Phoenix from the campaign you cited other than perhaps rank. The good Captain's ability to handle it really had nothing to do with his alien nature but his benefactor, Eon, who gave him the power. It subjected him to a spiritual trial in order for him to awaken to the power safely. I doubt he'd have had any problems (other than a bad writer with an anti-Cosmic Awareness agenda) if his character had been adventuring between then and how instead of dying when he did. His artificially created son had problems with it because he not only wasn't prepared for it (and bad writing for him to get it anyway since Captain Mar-Vell didn't have that power as part of his genetic make-up nor was it bestowed by the Nega-Bands) but he was artificial with an entire set of fake memories of child-hood and life. The lack of real experiences would have made dealing with a power that only reveals the truth and does so on the subject of everything, including yourself, would have to be devastating. Well as I rememember it Omni-Knowledge requires someone else put a question to you otherwise you don't really know anything, so by yourself it's useless. With Cosmic Awareness when you want to turn on Uatu's TV set you look and learn without the hassles of bringing along your sidekick to ask you what it is and how to use it. :) "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
You seem to have the wrong interpretation on Precognition if you think you're supposed to guarantee a seen future happens in spite of everything the player or players do. Even Destiny with probably the highest accuracy rating of any precog in the Marvel universe could get surprised or blindsided on occasion by totally unexpected events (such as when Colossus was teleported in to die with the X-men to seal up the Adversary; Destiny clearly stated she'd not 'seen' him being there in any of her visions making him an anomaly). There's plenty about a precognitive's vision that is left up to interpretion even if he clears a red power feat and its access to non-obvious information.
You might want to check out a web-comic called Dominic Deegan ( [www.dominic-deegan.com] ) as the title character is a very powerful precognitive and while it starts out somewhat humorous the strip's actually very serious and gives some insight into how a precog can be balanced and their limitations. In fact later into the comic (around the end of 2006 and going into 2007) his character teaches a class in the use of magic related to Precognition and Clairvoyance/Clairaudience and the ease with which one may be mislead even with a 100% accurate vision (the title character had trouble sorting the truth out in several visions he'd had because of a prejudice towards his brother who was in them and required an independent source to talk him through them). As far as trying to change the future goes, that's what heroes do all the time. If you know you can't win and can't change anything why even bother to try? What real game difference is there between Skulker's learning about a bank robbery that's going to happen via good detective work and trying to stop it and Next Man's learning about it through Precognition, other than Next Man has a better chance of knowing greater details about the robbery to better prepare? So why would a GM let the first stop the robbery by his intervention while tell the other that he's doomed to fail because he learned about it 'the wrong way'? In both cases the robbery occurs and in both intervention by an outside agent in the case of the heroes changes events and leads to failure. It was that same X-factor of the hero that was always screwing up The Thinker's mathematical models and wrecking his perfect crimes. In the end Precognition has its limits (a requirement when selecting it after all is at least one limitation) and while it's powerful it doesn't ensure success for anyone, hero or villain. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
I don't know about Bobby but Precognition generally shows a possible future, one that if current events run their course will occur. The accuracy varies with the person having it and some aren't that great at seeing what future is most likely but others quite good at it (like Destiny) and able to interfere with current events to sculpt things towards a specific future. Events must be mutable or else like you say what's the point of seeing the future or doing anything if you can't change things? You just have to worry about the downside if you have a low accuracy level and get frustrated over things not going as you forsaw. However that's not necessary a frustrating thing if you're responsible for changing things in the first place, then you feel relieved and vindicated.
Given that Marvel is a multiverse full of branching timelines and alternate realities Precognition is effectively giving you access to view along the axis of time like most of us view along the axis of space. The vision is just blurrier and difficult to focus because there are just so many branches available to view along. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet [www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller! [www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic! [www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story [www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
We have radically different approaches to playing, Nightmask. Suffice it to say, I think we're both in a better place by not playing in the same game. No offense meant--really--but we'd likely bicker more than we'd play.
I tend to think that Precognition needs to be ridiculously accurate, or it's not really a power. A precognitive whose predictions are constantly failing doesn't really have a very good power. I'm of a mind that explaining a fortune that doesn't happen as a divergent timeline is an option, but to rely on it too heavily is just lazy storytelling. I have a player who always wants to play some manner of precog, so I do have a little bit of experience. Mercifully, this guy understands how to play a convincing character without hogging the spotlight. At first, he was a chronal anomaly who had gained weird control over time. In that respect, his very presence in the timestream created a host of divergent temporal possibilities. I was able to balance his accuracy in seeing the future with all manners of time-warped craziness. So while I used the "you've created a divergent timeline" a couple times, I also presented other possibilities--the character accidentally summoned a "clone" from divergent timeline who did/succumbed to what he had predicted, for example. When we decided to play youngish mutants, he was a psychic with Precognition. This straight-up version was the hardest to manage, since I think the accuracy of the visions is kinda important to making the power. We agreed that his character was pretty much like Destiny--within the next couple rounds, he would know exactly what was going to happen. Past that, things got murky. Every once in a while, I hit him with a huge and important vision, and these often helped propel story lines. Currently, we're playing a game with a more mystic bent. His character is basically an expanded version of his previous character, but is a psychic with "the Sight". Of the three, this has been the most rewarding for almost everyone in our game, as his character waffles between sounding like a gonzo nutjob and a eerily-accurate prophet. The character constantly sees the future, but as a series of symbols and concepts as opposed to literal "Event X happens on Day Y to Person Z". What's great about this third approach is that it's up to the player to interpret the symbols, and sometimes what he comes up with is better than I had planned. Anyhow, that's my experience. YMMV. WolfSpider 2008!
Bobby Zero Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > We have radically different approaches to playing, > Nightmask. Suffice it to say, I think we're both > in a better place by not playing in the same game. > No offense meant--really--but we'd likely bicker > more than we'd play. I don't know that how we'd play is radically different, since I haven't seen you actually play and you haven't seen me play and I don't draw conclusions on anyone's play style from what they express here, but I'd think that'd at least depend on whether or not one of us was a GM to the other being a player or both as players with someone else as a GM wouldn't you say? In a forum where everyone's supposedly on equal footing I don't worry about disagreeing with someone being taken out on me in a game and shrug and move on if a GM rejects my suggestions or thoughts on a particular issue. Not worth the trouble. > I tend to think that Precognition needs to be > ridiculously accurate, or it's not really a power. > A precognitive whose predictions are constantly > failing doesn't really have a very good power. > I'm of a mind that explaining a fortune that > doesn't happen as a divergent timeline is an > option, but to rely on it too heavily is just lazy > storytelling. Yet that's dependent on why the predictions fail; if the precogs responsible for changing events to make the vision not come to pass that's something the average precog would be quite pleased about. Successfully preventing something terrible from happening is the point of trying to change the events, and occasionally perhaps making them worse or even messing up what would have been a good future. It happens often enough in the comics after all. > I have a player who always wants to play some > manner of precog, so I do have a little bit of > experience. Mercifully, this guy understands how > to play a convincing character without hogging the > spotlight. > > At first, he was a chronal anomaly who had gained > weird control over time. In that respect, his > very presence in the timestream created a host of > divergent temporal possibilities. I was able to > balance his accuracy in seeing the future with all > manners of time-warped craziness. So while I used > the "you've created a divergent timeline" a couple > times, I also presented other possibilities--the > character accidentally summoned a "clone" from > divergent timeline who did/succumbed to what he > had predicted, for example. > > When we decided to play youngish mutants, he was a > psychic with Precognition. This straight-up > version was the hardest to manage, since I think > the accuracy of the visions is kinda important to > making the power. We agreed that his character > was pretty much like Destiny--within the next > couple rounds, he would know exactly what was > going to happen. Past that, things got murky. > Every once in a while, I hit him with a huge and > important vision, and these often helped propel > story lines. > > Currently, we're playing a game with a more mystic > bent. His character is basically an expanded > version of his previous character, but is a > psychic with "the Sight". Of the three, this has > been the most rewarding for almost everyone in our > game, as his character waffles between sounding > like a gonzo nutjob and a eerily-accurate prophet. > The character constantly sees the future, but as > a series of symbols and concepts as opposed to > literal "Event X happens on Day Y to Person Z". > > What's great about this third approach is that > it's up to the player to interpret the symbols, > and sometimes what he comes up with is better than > I had planned. That seems to support somewhat the description of 'Second Sight' from Dominic Deegan, that visions are open to interpretation and require a great deal of knowledge to make accurate use of. A vision of someone getting run down by a car is useless if you can't figure out where it's going to happen after all but if you have enough information about the world around you you might be able to take seemingly trivial clues in the vision and work out the location and save teh day. > Anyhow, that's my experience. YMMV. "A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David [www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet [www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy! 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