There is no such thing as too powerful

There isn't, really. There's only 'too powerful relative to this'. Something can only be judged too powerful in comparison to something else, and anything or anyone can be rated too powerful given the wrong comparison for it. Spider-man's too powerful if you put him in a group of normal police, he totally outclasses them in every category; even a member of the Special Forces has no chance against him. Compared to his Rogue's Gallery though he's evenly matched to sometimes outmatched in one or more categories.

If you look at something and you're impression is a prompt 'that's/he's too powerful' you've slipped up and consciously or subconsciously compared something against something it shouldn't be compared to and formed a subjective impression instead of an objective, unbiased view of it. Always try and consider something based on its individual merits instead of going with first impressions or quick judgements without properly exploring the item in question, to reach the best understanding of something. Removing the subjective element also reduces the involvement of personal biases and ego that can often lead to conflict because of the differences in what people consider okay and what they consider too powerful

That being said for anyone who wants to consider this a flameable post or interpret it that way because they haven't had enough flames yet well that's your problem. This post is intended to promote unbiased and neutral views on a topic rather than bring in emotional baggage, like those who have the 'He's <Insert ultra-special favorite character ever here>!' argument for why a certain character has to beat everyone, up to and including God Himself.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

It's posts like these that make me miss WolfSpider.

At the end of the day, yes, it's all numbers and no matter what numbers are on a character sheet, there are bigger numbers to send that character's sheet up against. That said, there is a matter of scope. Does one want to play at power levels rivalling a nuclear explosion, or even more powerful than that? That's purely a matter of asthetics. Some people want to affect things on an intergallactic scale. Some would rather play on a neighborhood level. Both outlooks are valid.

On a personal level, my most successful games are usually around the cap of 175 max health and power ranks somewhere around Amazing. My players prefer keeping the clearly superhuman aspect, but at the same time, the power levels are such that they are more in touch with their humanity. I've tried a cosmic campaign here and there, but cosmic beings tend to look at things in a much different way than a human being would, and it becomes harder to relate with those kinds of characters as well as appreciate the scope of the threats those kinds of characters face. Astheticly, it's not my favorite genre either, but that doesn't mean good stories can't come from it.

That seems context-wise to be intended as an insult or put-down, if so it was just a waste of server space.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

I just reread my post. i don't see anything about it that was insulting or a put down.

Well the problem you run into is considering every high rank requiring one be considered cosmic, which isn't so. Aquarian might have that zen peace thing going for him and his Null-field providing a 10CS drop in attack damage but he's not really cosmic for all that power he's got. Numbers aren't everything even if from some of the private and public responses I've gotten too many want to define everything that way. Sure they're necessary to a degree to allow for qualitative comparisons when one's required to go in opposition of something and to resist the kind of power creep you run into in a free-form game where it's difficult to keep from going 'oh no I succeeded' to everything but they shouldn't be seen as the end-all and be-all of a character or a campaign.

The 'too powerful' complaint tends to also run up against the problem of players trying to be honestly creative with their powers but the GM doesn't want to let them be so creative because it requires more work for him and stifles creativity, like coming up with valid new power stunts for the PC or some nice helpful gadget for an adventure that'd let them take an unexpectedly quick path around a long-plotted storyarc.

Both end up being difficult to handle and balance, especially for players and GMs new to one another as they try to find a level of scale comfortable for each other. Most of us here haven't gamed together for example to really have much say whether or not someone's too powerful or too weak, or a good or bad gamer. There just needs to be more work on erring on the considerate and benefit of the doubt side of things because none of us have a lock on what's the 'perfect' or 'right' way to do things, there are many right ways to match with all the many different people.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

That's a reference to Bobby_Zero's declaration that my post left him missing posts from some apparently former member of the forum. Context-wise it sounds like a put-down along the lines of 'ah for the good old days when we only had to put up with his stupid comments'. Your comment was just fine Capo.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

No offense meant, Nightmask, but you're trying to justify power-gaming. I won't argue against that, since everyone has different tastes and enjoys different things from the gaming experience. What's disturbing is that you're trying to justify foisting your character onto a GM who doesn't feel comfortable with tackling your uber-hero in his game.

A good GM understands scope and balance in his game. If everyone's playing former Heralds, you don't send Aunt May after them swinging a frying pan. Likewise, if the players are revisiting the original New Mutants, they shouldn't have a ton of power-stunts of actual fighting experience.

Example Game:
The GM has set up the fictitious setting of Motor City, though all the citizens still living there know it as "Murder City". Crime is rampant--various mob leaders vie for dominance, and their goons have all but declared open war on the streets. The cops and city government are possibly more corrupt that the gangsters, and the GM's super-villains are blatant rip-offs of the Vulture, the Shocker, Boomerang, and the Trapster. I hope everyone can agree these villains are above street-level, but certainly on the C-List at best.

The GM explains the setting and the mood and perhaps even offers up an idea of the villains the hero-players will face. The first session is about to begin and the GM looks at the character sheets.

There's a character who rips off Dagger. A Prowler wannabe character. And there's a Shang-Chi analog.

The last player offers up a Superman knockoff.

So let's go with the idea that game play ensues. Boomerang attacks the heroes! Superman catches his razor-rang in mid-flight, then turns the villain into a cinder with his heat-vision. The other players never even picked up dice.

Because Superman killed off Boomerang, they didn't get a vital clue about an upcoming series of robberies by Vulture. The Prowler character uses some criminal connections anyhow to see what's going down, and Dagger puts the hurt on some thugs to figure out what's going on. None of that matters, because Superman's mega-hearing picked up the Vulture trying to rob a bank, and he's already wiped the floor with him by the time the other heroes even hear about the robberies in the first place.

By this point, the other players feel left out, because they're not able to contribute to the story. The GM is frustrated that the story he wanted to tell has been shredded. No one's really having any fun, except maybe for the Superman player, and even he's complaining about not being challenged enough.

What happened here was a failure to maintain game balance.

If a GM doesn't want to accept your character because it's too powerful or unbalancing, you really have three options. The first is present another character that falls within the parameters the GM sets. The second is look for another game. The third is to partner with the GM and find a way to tone down the aspects of your character that concern him. If the third option doesn't fly, then you're stuck with the first two.

Build a bridge. Get over it.

WolfSpider 2008!

Uh no not justifying or even discussing power gaming, which is a somewhat vague term anyway that can be stretched to cover just about anything someone wants to undercut or put down. No efforts to foist any characters on anyone's game either. The last character I created for a game was completely approved by the GM in question before he flipped out over something completely unrelated to the game and the character never got played. He felt the first submission was too powerful and I said fine and went with another so you're completely off base that I try to force over-powered characters onto anyone.

Your example also ends up falling flat as it's a specific scenario that can't encompass the variety of combinations of characters that can work together at different relative power levels. Also the Superman-analog's actions could just as easily be handled by a wiser player to not try and do everything himself and share the adventure with everyone. Grandstanding and trying to do everything will happen occasionally in a game no matter what the powers, talents, or abilities someone's PC might have. I've played in multi-player forums where characters of a wide range of power levels ended up interacting and never had a problem letting others have their victories instead of stealing the show even when I had the power to do so.

So whatever problems you've got with my postings or mistaken impressions you've picked up by reading too much into what I've said or jumping to conclusions not within the boundaries of what I've said this thread's still about being less judgemental and a little more open-minded and objective about things rather than making assumptions about others. There's nothing power gaming about a powerful character, power gaming is a style of play and not a person on this board has ever played a game with me to cast that aspersion upon me and I have never made any such negative judgements about anyone on here.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Wow. You're really good. You offer up generalizations for your original post, then follow up with a rant against GMs not letting you have your way, and now you're rationalizing it by saying a total stranger misunderstood you. More importantly, you blame that stranger of being judgmental and narrow-minded for making statements based solely upon what you've written.

That's something kinda sick, and yet kinda beautiful about that.

But your writing style, on its best day, is whiny and preachy. When you're not bringing your A-game, your written tone is intentionally confrontational, tedious and condescending. You offer/demand people take "advice" that you're unable to live by.

I'm a little ashamed I got roped into this conversation. But now that I see it for the mess that it is, it's best I walk away.

Good luck. And I mean that genuinely. But I'm not participating with this thread anymore.

WolfSpider 2008!

Seeing this last snarky remark I'm quite glad I won't have to see any more in the future. Never enjoyable to see a call for tolerance used as an excuse for intolerant remarks and judgements.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

fair enough

Do what I do. It's a bit complex, and takes a while, but balances out heroes vs. the villains. Below is one character, to use as an example.

Take their FASERIP, calculate every column shift from Typical (both negative and positive).

Fighting, Agility, Strength GD (+1CS each, so +3CS total).
Endurance IN (+4CS from Typical)
Reason EX (+2CS from Typical)
Intuition RM (+3CS From Typical)
Psyche IN (+4CS from Typical)

That gives +16CS total. So, for the hero's villain/nemesis, you now have 16CS to distribute as you see fit. You could give the villain Strength and Endurance of Incredible (-8CS), and have 8CS left to distribute. This way, the villain will be equal in total number of column shifts, but could have widely differing stats.

Now, powers work differently. There is no Typical for powers, you either have it at a rank, or you don't (If it has no rank, just go with it having Feeble). Calculate how much it is from Shift 0.

KNOWN POWERS (5/7):
Mass Decrease: IN (+7CS)
Mass Increase: IN (+7CS)
Phasing: IN (+7CS)
Missile Creation: GD (+4CS)
Energy Sponge: AM (+8CS)

For a total of +33CS. Now, if your villain has 5/7 powers too, distribute how you want. If he has, say, 7/9, or 9/12, you have to distribute accordingly.

Viola, your heroes and villains are equal, but different. Now, if Mr. Amazing's villain, Ms. Darkness, who is his equal/a little higher, tackles Mr. Average as a villain, Mr. Average has to think outside the box to survive/capture her.

At face value, that's true... when I used to have such an issue in a campaign, I would never say "Your guy is too powerful". I would say "Your guy is too powerful for the rest of the group, because if I put you guys up against something that will challenge you, they will all die... and if I give you guys something on their level, you guys will be bored because your character will wipe up the floor with such adversaries." That being said, I never have to say all of that anymore. Now, I can simply say, "That guy is too powerful" and they know exactly what I'm saying.

In comics, most super teams admittedly have people on a roster that range a broad spectrum of power levels and abilities, green arrow on the JLA at the same time as Superman, or Black Widow on an Avengers roster that has the Sentry.

That said, just for fairness to the players during creation, i tend to have them all use tyhe same number of creation points to generate their character, with potential bonuses for flaws/merits. I wouldn't want to be in a game where player X gets to have a points stacked character, and i have to make due with half the number of creation points so i can play the 'hawkeye' of the group. But that's not to say you can't engineer a plot where a rediculous villain takes on a team that runs the gammut in terms of power and abilities. In fact, a sign of a good Judge is to have an achilles heel that only the weakest member of the group could exploit, where raw brute force really equals naught. On the flipside, there's times where the Judge can make the players take an honest look at each other and say 'We would have totally been wasted if we didn't have that godling on the team'.

However, players want to have an even shake with each other at creation i tend to find, so I just make things easier on myself and set everyone on the same starting level.

It does provide challenges for a GM I agree to help balance things and just makes things easier if everyone's roughly the same power levels, although even that can be difficult to judge. Someone who loves that high-tech character building things can feel weak compared to the rest of the group if they have flashy powers and everything inherent, even though the group genius is a critical help in many situations. They all might have the same creation points but some wild variation in physical capabilities, and sometimes someone might not build quite what he'd like because he feels it's 'too weak' compared to the rest and add in some physical powers or non-concept physical stats to 'keep up'.

Even if everyone's trying not to upstage the less physical character sometimes the player might feel that way and I don't envy the GMs who have to try and balance all of that because you can never have things truly equal, you can only get them 'equal enough'. A good relationship among the players and GM will help with that problem, and like you say with the GM providing a game where they go 'Boy aren't we glad we had that Godling backing us up' helps encourage appreciation of more types of characters and might inspire someone to try characters in the other ranges of play after seeing how helpful they can be.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There isn't, really. There's only 'too powerful
> relative to this'. Something can only be judged
> too powerful in comparison to something else, and
> anything or anyone can be rated too powerful given
> the wrong comparison for it.
>

I agree that in comics and movies this is true. However, in a RPG this is completely a false statement. There without a doubt can be too powerful in a gaming group.

Depending on what the GM is throwing you up against on a daily basis can change this. However, who really enjoys playing a campaign where your characters can kick the crap out of Iron Man, Superman, The Hulk, Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four, Doomsday, etc...??

Honestly what would be the point of playing with that type of power? Wouldn't it severely limit the enjoyment of overcoming villains and roleplaying? What would there be to work toward? What would there be to develop or improve?

Now throw in what someone else mentioned about one character being Thor and the others being equivalent to Hawkeye, and now you definately have a player too powerful for the group. Nobody wants to sit back every encounter and wait for your god-like group member to singlehandedly defeat the villain or save the day.

I'm a bit confused by this topic in the first place? Has someone mentioned that your characters are a bit too powerful? What brought this on?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2008 12:34PM by Lafarallin.

Uh you actually support my point that there isn't anything such as too powerful, only too powerful relative to something else, or as you point out someone might be a great deal more powerful than the rest of the group on a grade similar to Hawkeye Vs Thor (although I do think they served on the Avengers at the same time, and Hawkeye definitely served at the same time as She-Hulk who's massively more powerful than he is).

A group tends to end up against a variety of opponents, not all of whom can be taken out by the Thor without support from the Hawkeyes or Spider-men on the team. Instead of appreciating someone who can help a group take on the harder challenges there seems like an overwhelming rejection of such characters and anyone who might like them, and too much thought to the ranks or the Roll-playing instead of the role-playing. There really should be more to how someone views a character than just what its ranks are and what it's got.

In regards to the last set of questions I have endured more than a few flames of late in regards to my characters where it seems more effort was put into looking at the ranks instead of the actual character's overall theme and balance. This even though they do run the range all the way from a normal human (Retribution) all the way up to admittedly a more cosmic class character (Starfox).

Seems like a failure to remember that power is relative and characters are more than ranks, and unlike most I post my creations here relatively frequently for anyone who might draw inspiration from them or like to use them sometime in a game (I've had a few PM about just that). Which isn't easy considering the rush of some to form negative impressions or flame instead of simply look and see if it looks like a nice idea or not.

I'd hoped the forums here were more open-minded and not prone to the kinds of flames and attack behavior that runs through so many other boards, and disappointed in the rash of flames lately (including my own contribution at the end of last year) and seemed like the need was there to point out power is relative and there are no absolutes in regards to what is and isn't too powerful and the need for less criticism of others based on their RP choices. Especially the need to stop using such dismissive language like power-gamer, munchkin, or twink to label anyone and get back to some mutual respect and general focus on improving the fun of the game instead of name-calling.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh you actually support my point that there isn't
> anything such as too powerful, only too powerful
> relative to something else, or as you point out
> someone might be a great deal more powerful than
> the rest of the group on a grade similar to
> Hawkeye Vs Thor (although I do think they served
> on the Avengers at the same time, and Hawkeye
> definitely served at the same time as She-Hulk
> who's massively more powerful than he is).
>
> A group tends to end up against a variety of
> opponents, not all of whom can be taken out by the
> Thor without support from the Hawkeyes or
> Spider-men on the team. Instead of appreciating
> someone who can help a group take on the harder
> challenges there seems like an overwhelming
> rejection of such characters and anyone who might
> like them, and too much thought to the ranks or
> the Roll-playing instead of the role-playing.
> There really should be more to how someone views a
> character than just what its ranks are and what
> it's got.
>
> In regards to the last set of questions I have
> endured more than a few flames of late in regards
> to my characters where it seems more effort was
> put into looking at the ranks instead of the
> actual character's overall theme and balance.
> This even though they do run the range all the way
> from a normal human (Retribution) all the way up
> to admittedly a more cosmic class character
> (Starfox).
>
> Seems like a failure to remember that power is
> relative and characters are more than ranks, and
> unlike most I post my creations here relatively
> frequently for anyone who might draw inspiration
> from them or like to use them sometime in a game
> (I've had a few PM about just that). Which isn't
> easy considering the rush of some to form negative
> impressions or flame instead of simply look and
> see if it looks like a nice idea or not.
>
> I'd hoped the forums here were more open-minded
> and not prone to the kinds of flames and attack
> behavior that runs through so many other boards,
> and disappointed in the rash of flames lately
> (including my own contribution at the end of last
> year) and seemed like the need was there to point
> out power is relative and there are no absolutes
> in regards to what is and isn't too powerful and
> the need for less criticism of others based on
> their RP choices. Especially the need to stop
> using such dismissive language like power-gamer,
> munchkin, or twink to label anyone and get back to
> some mutual respect and general focus on improving
> the fun of the game instead of name-calling.

I knew there was a bit more going on then I realized regarding this topic. I admit looking at some of your characters more closely now, they are far more powerful then any I have ever had. However, that being said...I had no clue how long you had played them nor what type of campaigns they were used in (if any).

I just enjoyed reading them for the value of a cool character concept. For all I know you have never used any of them in a campaign. Personally it really doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks about your characters. If you use them it is all about what your GM and fellow players think about it. When you post something personal you have to expect to get flak for it. My suggestion is don't take it personal.

To be honest, my character Gamble is far more powerful then any character I originally played. When I first started out I had a GM that had us all roll one time and keep whatever we got. This would include powers (random obviously) and then power ranks. It made for some very odd characters. I recall one that had a feeble strength but amazing agility and endurance. I ended up making the character an alien which was similar to a mouse but biped. I think his powers were flight, fire emission and telepathy but I don't recall now.

I'm rambling though, the point is everything like you said is relative. If it was a higher powered campaign with cosmic challenges your character would probably be underpowered. In my first campaign your character Nightmask, your namesake, would have been god-like. In my current one you would be near undefeatable by my group but we might find a way. In the end who cares? If you have fun playing them and it works for you, awesome! That is the whole point anyway, to have fun.

For the record, I really didn't look at your character FASERIP, powers, or ranks. I just read the backgrounds and enjoyed doing so.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2008 02:47PM by Lafarallin.

> I knew there was a bit more going on then I
> realized regarding this topic. I admit looking at
> some of your characters more closely now, they are
> far more powerful then any I have ever had.
> However, that being said...I had no clue how long
> you had played them nor what type of campaigns
> they were used in (if any).

Most of them haven't been played anywhere but the playtesting area in my head and presented just as possible PC or NPC additions to someone's gaming experience or material for inspiration.

> I just enjoyed reading them for the value of a
> cool character concept. For all I know you have
> never used any of them in a campaign. Personally
> it really doesn't matter what I or anyone else
> thinks about your characters. If you use them it
> is all about what your GM and fellow players think
> about it. When you post something personal you
> have to expect to get flak for it. My suggestion
> is don't take it personal.

For the most part I don't, although the recent flames have been especially trying. I suppose I should take it as a compliment however, after all why waste time flaming a nobody? You want to flame someone you perceive having some level of importance so you can feel big about yourself for having 'defeated' someone of worth yet not so important you'll get flamed yourself for it.

> To be honest, my character Gamble is far more
> powerful then any character I originally played.
> When I first started out I had a GM that had us
> all roll one time and keep whatever we got. This
> would include powers (random obviously) and then
> power ranks. It made for some very odd
> characters. I recall one that had a feeble
> strength but amazing agility and endurance. I
> ended up making the character an alien which was
> similar to a mouse but biped. I think his powers
> were flight, fire emission and telepathy but I
> don't recall now.

Gamble's a fine character I think, with his intelligence and Hyper-Invention he's great for solving all sorts of problems, not just technical ones and he's got Gateway for transportation, protective body armor, and valuable life-support and protection from environmental hazards in the Micro-Environment power.

> I'm rambling though, the point is everything like
> you said is relative. If it was a higher powered
> campaign with cosmic challenges your character
> would probably be underpowered. In my first
> campaign your character Nightmask, your namesake,
> would have been god-like. In my current one you
> would be near undefeatable by my group but we
> might find a way. In the end who cares? If you
> have fun playing them and it works for you,
> awesome! That is the whole point anyway, to have
> fun.

Nightmask originated way back before the Internet and ISP were a common thing and freehand-RP was handled by BBS's that were part of interactive networks that would periodically update to propogate people's replies to one another much like a play by e-mail would work. You'd have been hard-pressed to find a Spider-man level character in those groups, most were playing demi-gods, elder dragons, and higher. I quite agree that it's all about having fun, and accepting that someone else having fun doesn't take away from your own. The person who created and maintained the game system on one multi-player game site I once enjoyed was actually revising the system just to personally inconvenience me and screw with my character because he treated everything as a battle and had no problems cheating and placing loopholes in the rules to use for himself or give out to friends. Just sucked the life out of things.

> For the record, I really didn't look at your
> character FASERIP, powers, or ranks. I just read
> the backgrounds and enjoyed doing so.


Well glad you liked the backgrounds for the characters, those tend to be the hardest part, especially as I go along. I do like to keep each one as original as possible which hampers posting some characters (and sometimes I feel I posted some a bit too soon and should have waited longer to better feel the history for the character). A feel for the FASERIP, Powers, and Talents of a particular character isn't so hard when it comes to generating someone with a certain concept, but fitting an origin to them is much harder.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread