Power-created Nourishment: How safe is it?

I've been pondering for a while the relative safety of consuming materials created by powers like Molecular Creation, Lifeform Creation, or Artifact Creation when the food, drink, or air is of less then permanent duration. So just how detrimental is or might one consider such materials to be, when the body's had time to incorporate the various atoms of that perfect steak you memorized and they all go *poof*.

Would the damaged genes and cells caused by those atoms going away be of sufficient numbers for the person to suffer risks of cancer or other debilitating or even lethal consequences? How would one incorporate those risks into the game without being too cumbersome, or do most GM tend to deny the players the various Creation powers for other reasons and simply don't have that problem to consider?

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I’d say Characters who have Mastered those types of ‘Powers’ don’t even need to eat, drink, or breath at all..... They’d have ‘Life Support’

Their body ‘May’ require nourishment, but they simply take in nourishment through osmosis (Skin) without even thinking about it....

Or nourishment and oxygen simply materializes in their intestinal track and lungs, at a perfect level to keep their body Healthy and Fit......

But I also say their internal organs would be completely different.... Instead of a ‘Liver’ or ‘Kidneys’ these guys would have organs designed to calculate Energy and Matter on an Atomic Level... And they’d probably have some form of ‘Solar’ Absorption..... Converting Heat and Light radiation into useable body nourishment.....

I’d think the psychological instincts to Breath and Eat would even be nullified as well.... Using those parts of the nervous system and brain as a means to calculate atomic mass and the proper energy to manipulate the Atomic Structure...

If the Character uses his Matter Manipulation Powers to create a dish of food I don’t think he’d even have a desire to eat..... Maybe pure water and some other ‘Chemicals’, simply for hydration and organic vitamins..

But if another Character ate the dish of food, it would be no more dangerous than Restaurant Dining....

And even if the Dish of Food only lasts for a few hours... Most organic creatures (Humans too) absorb the nourishment in a few hours as well....... It would be like eating Chinese Food..... An hour later and you’re hungry again....



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Makes one wonder about replicator food and other Unified Field Theory technology on Star Trek. I would assume that the replicator has a pre-programmed selection of foodstuffs and just converts the energy into the pattern selected by the user. The transporter works in a similar way, I believe, which is interesting, because the show has alluded to a person's pattern being in the transporter buffer, and in certain situations, they were reconstituted without aging. In theory, it should be possible to materialize people using the transporter: 1. physically as young as they were the last time they used it or even younger if the pattern was kept, thus eliminating the aging process, 2) with full stomachs and 3) with empty bladders. As to why they don't, there's probably some PC Starfleet regulation about it.

I think Nightmask might be on more the right track. Tanker has some interesting views, but I think psyche will always over ride powerset. Just because one's creation powers may alleviate need for sustinence of whatever type, doesn't mean one's conscious mind accepts such thinks to be cogent or possible, thus a psychological limitation would impede such de facto immortality.

As far as celular damage, I suppose it depends on the duration of the "food" being ingested. If the duration is short enough, then the food would simply disappear while still inside the stomach, and a simple endurence check could be made for -CS due to hunger pains. However, if the duration were longer and the cells metabolized the foodstuffs, there could be resultant damage from the material of the food disappearing. Then again, one could argue that once metabolized, the "food" becomes part and parcel with the cell, and therefore the duration of the created matter is irrelevant, because the matter was converted to another form before it had the chance to vanish from existence.

As far as Surge's Star Trek correlation, and I feel like such a nerd for this, but back in the day I was scoping the Trek tech manual. The replicator systems are tied into the human waste disposal systems. So I guess that replicated food comes from somewhere after all.

Well I specifically exclude permanent foodstuffs due to their obviously permanent nature, they aren't going to just disappear when the body is depending upon them. The Star Trek Replicator technology works by converting energy from scanned and stored matter back into stable and permanent matter afterwards so it's not going anywhere other than naturally after you eat or breathe it.

Yes the Transporters could conceivably keep one young forever, or virtually immortal (such as the episode where Picard and several others ended up children, with the extra mass somehow removed without difficulty) but easy as it was they always like to ignore the implications of such technology and forget it ever happened by the next episode when in reality it would be heavily studied and reproduced by everyone. Several Original Generation ST novels dealt with a villain who used transporter technology to be immortal, long before the Next Generation episode did.

There's a LOT of technology in Star Trek that goes forgotten: remember I, MUDD? A planet of ultra-advanced robots capable of group network across space via a sub-space link like the Borg who were successfully reprogrammed by Spock to serve the Federation. They had technology Scotty was fascinated by and the ability to create android bodies that could contain a human brain and keep it alive for millenia yet we see none of that incorporated into the Next Generation.

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Well Capo if you go by the 'basic' creation powers you can't create something inside something else so can't use it like Self-Sustenance without actually creating and eating/breathing/drinking the created material, and not sure how you'd interpret any of those powers that would plausibly justify being able to internally create whatever a cell requires at the time for nourishment. Plus given most of the time the powers can't make permanent atoms so with your notation the body would probably subconsciously refuse to rely upon such a method and risk damage from those atoms just disappearing after being used.

I don't think digestion would really prevent created atoms from disappearing if they aren't permanent, since the process of digesting/metabolizing something doesn't do anything to the atoms other than put them somewhere else, it isn't going to make them more stable just like it doesn't affect natural decay of atomic particles or radioactive substances.

The only real question is how much immediate or long-term health risk there is from trying to live on such temporary materials. I suppose there's a question of how safe other created biologicals are as well when they aren't permanent, like blood or insulin. The powers seem to imply that the person knows ahead of time whether or not something he creates won't last so it's not like he's going to end up accidentally using something that's not permanent, just left with whether or not temporary material would provide reasonable benefits and not be dangerous in some fashion.

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I have actually run across this problem in a game I was running and figured a way to solve it. I had the character do a series of stunts. 1st was that permenancy was a yellow feat. 2nd permanancy was a green feat. 3rd was Life Support/Self Sustenance. Similar to Nightmasks Digestive/Lung Adaptaion on Moleculon. I just required it as a 3 stage stunt.

Very generous of you, many GM tend to have problems with the creation powers and the ready access to resources that they provide, and being able to power stunt to reduce the feat required to make something permanent all the way to automatic is the first time I've heard of it. I'd say it fits the heading of Self-Sustenance instead of Life Support though, since Life Support provides for more than just not needing to eat, drink, or breathe but protection from things like heat, cold, and vacuum that Self-Sustenance doesn't provide. Then again the full range of implications when it comes to the various creation powers has likely never been explored.

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As far as Surge's Star Trek correlation, and I feel like such a nerd for this, but back in the day I was scoping the Trek tech manual. The replicator systems are tied into the human waste disposal systems. So I guess that replicated food comes from somewhere after all.

I'm glad you said it first.... 'coz I was gonna...

;)

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On the whole, I gotta go with good ol' reliable thermodynamics laws, particularly the First and Second Laws.

1.) Matter / energy is neither created nor destroyed, only changed from one state to another.

2.) In all matter / energy exchanges, if no additional energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state (entropy / decay).

In effect, you're describing the biological processes as a open thermodynamic system, receptive to additional energy (i.e. food) to fend off entropy (depletion of potential energy in the system). You're on the right track.

Powers that "create" matter / energy in the form of fuel or nutrition from nothing (besides giving a mighty comic book bitchslap to the 1st Law of Thermodynamics) are still adding potential energy to the open system. This energy (fuel, food, etc.) that is used in the biological processes works as normal.

Think of it like a car. You "create" the fuel for the car, and drive it down the highway on this fuel. As you're driving, this "created fuel" reveals itself to be impermanent, and disappears back to where lost socks and the Hulk's additional green muscles go when Banner calms down. The wear and tear on the car is still going to be there, the car will still have moved down the highway, but now the fuel's gone.

Same with a human body. The "created" nutrients still replenished the body, fueled the expulsion of waste materials and cellular growth, etc. but the undigested food (unused potential energy) suddenly disappears. I can see the case for serious acid reflux / heartburn as the digestive system is trying to break down food that suddenly isn't there anymore, but developing some sort of cellular cancer from having used fuel before it disappeared is a hard sell.

Especially if the 1st Law holds once the energy exchange (i.e. the food is already digested and put to work in the body) has already occured. Just as a car fueled by "impermanent gasoline" is not going to teleport back to its starting location, the biological system's cells aren't going to revert to a state as if they've been starved for fuel all along.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 02:48AM by The Beyonders.

I’d say Food ‘Created’ by a Character with Matter / Energy Manipulation would be just like regular food....

Only the refinement and cooking process is greatly sped up... From Raw Fruits, Veggies, and Meat to a very nice ready to serve platter of Steak, Potato, Salad, Fruit Drink, and all the Spices (A-1 and Ranch)....... (and some Cheese... Can’t forget Cheese, Cheese is Good on Food)

Even the Plate and Fork would be permanent for at least 20 to 30 Minutes......


I still would say most people would soon figure out Self-Substance (and maybe even Life Support) with in a few weeks, or even days of discovering they harness such a Power as Matter / Energy Manipulation........

Humans enjoy food because our Frail Bodies require so much maintenance..... We gotta Sleep, We gotta Eat, We gotta Breath, and We gotta Stay Warm.............

If suddenly, I was granted such a power as Matter / Energy Manipulation.... My first few hours of exploring such a Power would be nullifying those necessities........

Ain’t no time to Eat, Breath, or Sleep..... I gotta figure-out this whole Fuggen ‘Lighting Bolt’ Thing works....

Holy Shiz, you see that guy’s head Fuggen Blow-Up!!!!!!! That was FUGGEN Bad-Azz!!!!!

Oh Shiz... Cops!!!!........ Hold on........ I ain’t gotta Run from these goons.... How’s about a Flaming, Acid Drenched, Electric, Lazer-Beam of Explosive Death..... Fired from my Fuggen Finger-Tip!!!!!.........

See all those Fuggen Squad Cars blow up.... Fuggen Wicked!!!!!...... That dood’s Leg flew over there and ALL the meat burnt off his bones......

HA HA HA HA.....

BAM!!!!!

OHHHHHHH!!!!!!! FUXX!!!!!!! A SWAT Team Sniper Cop, FUGGEN-FUXX-MUTHA-FUGGER!!!!! Square in my BACK......... You Dirty Rat Bastard Mutha-Fugger....

Heal this Wound NOW!!!!!
Full Motorized Body Armor NOW!!!!

And now I’m Pissed.... That whole Building where the Sniper shot came from........

VANISH into thin air and every person inside falls to the ground, breaking their bones and shiz.......... Walk right up to that very Sniper / Grab‘em / Put Agonizing Heat to his Flesh and Freeze’em into a Solid Brass Statue with his face Screaming in TERROR’n’PAIN........

@#$%& Screaming and Guys Scheming from the fall........ “HELL-FIRE!!!!” in all directions at once...

Oh.... Now the Army Shows Up............. I’ll take 10 or 20 machine-guns from those Dirt-Bags hiding behind the Truck........ All Those Guns get transformed into One Gnarly-@#$%& Vulcan Cannon that fires whatever Ammo I want, Like Aiming a Garden Hose........ DIE @#$%& DIE!!!!!!!!!!

And a Nifty Little Flight Pack and Some Buzz Lightyear Wings ‘POP’ out of my Armor...... DEATH FROM ABOVE!!!!!!

OHHHHHH!!!!!! SHIX!!!!! TANKS...... MA HA HA HA HA........

Thanks, I needed to upgrade my Armor Anyway........ How’s about I commandeer these 3 Tanks over here and make them into one big-azz flying, submersible, space worthy Combat TANK.... That transforms into a Heavy Battle Suit......... With a BIGGER GATLON GUN, and A FUGGEN RAIL GUN.

Chances are you’d be ‘Granted’ such a power amongst some really Chaotic adventures.....



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Man, I'd have at least turned one of the enemies trying to take me down into a candy bar and ate it in front of the other enemies.

I mean, there's power gamin', and then there's power gamin. :D

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"Batman and Captain America are the key to everything" - Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Blue3/Red616, on merging the Purple Multiverse