Thor's a real god

So any one see the recent issue where Thor controls earth and makes a canyon? So do we add Unearthly earth control to him as well. I'd say so.

I'm not a fan of the Olympians or Asgardians being "official" Gods but rather powerful Aliens as seen in the character generation-Origin section.

But added( changed ) powers are part and parcel of comics hero's.

Marvel in comics though has hied away from that 'Cultural-Pantheons-as-Aliens' mindset for some time now. Marvel has been attributing more and more as of late, divine abilities to those whose status is 'Godhood'.

That isn't to say that the christian god doesn't exist in the Marvel U either, as we've seen in Ghost Rider, angels and demons both also function for their relative higher powers. And perhaps not unplanned, they also mimic abilities typically attributed to their mythological roots, as opposed to 'another breed of extra dimensional being' status, or even overt dissociation from christianity.

Stan Lee has always had his "One Above All" as well..

And the sky is blue... water is wet... women have their secrets...

I'm not sure what to make of Marvel Thor's present powers and levels. Wasn't he the King of Asgard or something prior to his demise? And wouldn't that have made him the vessel for the "power of Odin"?

If so, maybe some of the odd powers he's been exhibiting will vanish when Odin returns?

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I don't thin Thor has any aspect of the Odin power right now. I think Marvel is just showing him as the God that he is. I never understood why readers didnt get it with thor. He is a God. Readers and MSU game players tend to be so myopic and think Thor can only do whats on his character right up. When the reality his powers are almost as diverse and powerful as Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange.

Don't forget to include what happened with Thunderstrike after he died, when Thor wanted him sent on to Vahalla and Odin intervened to remind his son that Eric Masterson had a different destination and he entered that light that even Odin couldn't speak to what was on the other side. A pretty clear acknowledgement from Odin that the Christian god existed and had final say in those souls that worshipped him.

Given that there are also small pockets of resurging worshippers of those older pantheons Marvel's also likely trying to show more respect for those worshippers instead of pushing the more Christian line that 'everyone else is just a demon and not really a god or just a false dream and never did exist'. The only difference after all between those older pantheons and current religions is the newer ones ruthlessly wiped out the worshippers of the older ones and made it almost impossible for them to return, hence why history classes refer to them as mythological yet anything related to the judaochristianislamic faith is 'real' and therefore offensive to refer to as mythological.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 08:49PM by Nightmask.

Possible, considering as the inheritor of Odin's power he was able to reconstruct Asgard in its entirety on Earth (Minus the Rainbow bridge) and it's leading him to other Asguardians who've merged with like-minded mortals. An interesting thought though is whether or not any of them would merge with Superhumans. After all it's hard to imagine Loki being reborn into a 'normal' mortal, seems like he'd come back in someone of more super-villainous stature. Oh, and another question, considering we saw (surprisingly enough) in Spider-Man that Loki has various half-breed and less children running around, how would the events of Asgard's destruction and Thor's rebirth affect his kids, and those possible unknown children of other Asgardians? I can't believe that Loki's the only one going around having kids. Wouldn't surprise me that even the Enchantress has a few around that she's hidden for their own safety from her enemies.

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Jack Kirby is the Marvel Universe creator god, as revealed in an old Fantastic Four...

I think they did a homage/parody of that in the retooled Supreme, when he was changed from a unique character into a knock-off/flashback to the Silver-Age Superman. At one point he ends up in the mountains and passing through a portal into a reality that eventually is revealed to be in the sole control of an artist/writer who was so creative or something he ended up in his own reality as its god. The artwork style of the reality is Kirby-esque in nature.

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Does anyone remember the character Crusader, who was strong enough to take a sword and shield against Thor as long as he kept "faith" in the Judeo-Christian God?

I've never really cared for "god" characters. It's like, "so, you were born with your powers. Why aren't you an X-Man or a DC title?"

i do happen to remember Crusader. i think Wolverine killed him at the onset of Civil War.

Anyways...

I don't remember him actually having powers per se' but even if that was one of his caveats that his faith kept his weapons indestructable, well that's not actually a mutant power. he's acting as an Avatar of some entity of some sort, and without that entity's sponsorship, that guy has no powers. Kind of like Moon Knight. Whereas a mutant has powers period point blank.

As far as 'god' related characters, well Ghost Rider was one of my favorite characters of all time, and he's very much in Marvel's version of the judeo-christian good vs. evil diatribe, so i can't say that they don't have a place in a multi-pantheoned Universe.

I didn't mean to imply that Crusader was a mutant, just that "faith" was strong enough to let him go toe-to-toe with Thor.

I like Ghost Rider too, but he's an exception to the "born with power / destined for power / smart enough / rich enough to have cool powered battle armor toys" rule (in DC mostly, but Marvel is pushing it) I think is WAY overused.

Just me grumbling, I guess.

Well with Crusader we haven't a certainty that he's not a super-human of the mutant persuasion, we only know that by having a certain kind of mental focus and determination he seemed able to manifest a sword, shield, and armor that were virtually indestructable as long as he maintained that focus. Whether he's simply insane and thinks he gains his powers from his ancesters falsely or truly does hasn't been definitively proven, since he wouldn't be the first character whose origin showed him getting his powers as a gift like that only to learn it was simply an hallucination later on and came about in another way entirely.

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The Crusader was an interesting character. I remember reading that one back when I was, like, 13 or 14. I actually used him in my "Morningstar" campaign. He had taken the name Puritan and was in association with with a group of fundies that were protest the genetic research being conducted by GenTech... which created the Morningstar synthoid.

Anyway, in my write up on the Crusader/Puritan, I nailed down Mephisto as the ultimate source of his powers.

As for deities as comicbook characters... I'm not sure how I feel about that. For one, the risk of impious portrayals is always there. It also sharply defines a force that should naturally inspire a sense of awe and wonder... robbing the divine of mystery.

On the otherhand, Thor has always been a magnet for storytelling. And for the most part, Marvel's portrayal of Thor has never offended me to any significant degree.

I dunno... I think that when it comes right down to it, I would prefer to see the power of various deities working through/empowering mortal agents and the sense of mystery that should properly surround the divine kept in place.

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"You just decided *all by yourselves* that you are the Earth's protectors. And that you, and *only* you, not your teammates or family, are trustworthy enough to include in the process..."

T'Challa, The New Avengers: Illuminati 1

I wonder if Marvel will revive those three humans empowered by the Egyptian Pantheon during that multi-pantheon godswar that Seth was managing. I don't think any of them have been seen since then. I agree it would be nice to see more mortal agents/avatars empowered by the various pantheons, especially some of the older pantheons like the Persian gods. Sadly it is difficult for them to do them in a respectful manner (Crusader ends up an example of that, being a stereotypical intolerant Christian out to kill anyone 'not of the faith', not enough characters like Esperita I think her name was, nicely Christian but open and tolerant, and apparently immortal). It also ends up harder to respect the older pantheons because there aren't any (or enough known) worshippers in modern times for them to be concerned enough to respect the religion/mythology.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Crusader was a cool character concept, the personality given to said concept was pure crap.

Might be nice to see him back from the Civil War plane crash, patch over the eye Wolverine gouged out, scarred from the flames, and wielding a determination strong enough to behead the Aquarian.

Well I doubt even his faith-driven powers would let him injure Aquarian, that Null-field is extremely potent, even Thor would be weak as a kitten inside of it. I'd rather see Crusader reborn as an actual hero for a change, instead of a cardboard-cutout representation of the madness of Christianity during one of its expansionist phases.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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I think you answered your own question. The general audience has no interest in seeing a slew of characters from unfamiliar and ill-defined pantheons. it's hard enough keeping Thor's title on the stands as it's never been the strongest selling comic book.

The reason a god like thor born with power is not a mutant is that they are not a genetic evolved version of homosapien evolved to homosuperior. They are much much further on the evolutionary latter if you NEED to think of things in those terms. But the reality is they are gods and far superior. A typical Asgardian is more powerful then the average mutant. Most mutants are not at the powerlevel of the xmen.