What Happened to The X-Men and The Avengers?

I must admit that I have seen the Fantastic Four go through various roster changes over the years. Most of the early ones were for the better or maintained the integrity of what the group represented. Some of the later changes just went bonkers! Now they seem to have gone back to the basics. Maybe that's just me. But the Avengers and X-Men used to mirror these types of changes. Yet lately they have gone off the deep end! Always switching characters or killing off characters? Even going so far as to have mystery characters??!I'm lost!

Does anyone else want to see some stability in these teams and some concrete direction?! Does anyone think this is working? Or do you feel the teams have a real sense of identity and actually stand for something as they once did? Of course, today's teams don't need to take on the same direction and motivation of their predecessors, but they don't seem to have any to speak of, except the name "Avengers" & "X-Men."

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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

What happened to the teams? They got better.

And as for the Fantastic Four and their 'classic roster', if you call having Storm and Black Panther heading up that team as 'classic' then if you say so.

Unfortunately they have been churning through Team Rosters with greater speeds, creating chaos and a serious lack of stability (even two competing groups vying for the title Avengers). Unfortunately stability, continuity, and general steadfastness are treated as old-fashioned and discarded at every opportunity and the harm it does to the quality of the work shows.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Well considering the fact that the Marvel books are reflecting events that have taken place in the last 5 years and thus shaking up the team line ups to cary out the consequences of those events, well wouldn't that mean that they're adhering to the dirty continuity word?

Or maybe it's not that marvel doesn't adhere to continuity that gets so many 'classic' fans' goats. maybe it's just that the continuity isn't one they like.

So the reason that there are 2 Avengers teams, a different FF line up, etc. [I don't even see the complaint about X-Men, it's got the same roster of characters they've always had plus or minus an individual here or there] is that the teams are being formed in response to things that are happening in the Marvel U. In fact blatantly /not/ ignoring the continuity and weaving it in through the books.

So when can we start the Marvel's Continuity celebration?

Well I would have to disagree on a few points these teams did not get better. The fantastic four has sucked royally and the mighty avengers is pure trash. New avengers and astonishing x-men have been by far marvels best team books in along time,

On another note I don't read a lot of x titles becouse of the constant flip flopping of characters. Exp. emma frost is a villian not a x-men, gambit is one day x-men next marrauder? Perhaps a little to much drama and not enough good stories.

Nightmask Wrote:
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> Unfortunately they have been churning through Team
> Rosters with greater speeds, creating chaos and a
> serious lack of stability (even two competing
> groups vying for the title Avengers).
> Unfortunately stability, continuity, and general
> steadfastness are treated as old-fashioned and
> discarded at every opportunity and the harm it
> does to the quality of the work shows.


I don't know Capo, Nightmask seems to be on the same page me as I was referring to the churning of the teams.

Sure you are right about the New Fantastic Four roster, but if you're disturbed about that then you can understand why I am disturbed about the Avengers and the X-Men!? This has nothing to do with the "classic" argument as I stated that in my first post! I'm just curious to know if more people are having trouble liking a team that keeps changing to sell the books! I can imagine that they are trying to keep up with what is going on in the greater Marvel Universe, but come on Ronin is just a cheap reason to buy the book! Just like the House of M ending in the death of Magneto or even having Mags as Xorn?!

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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

muthal the cursed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well I would have to disagree on a few points
> these teams did not get better. The fantastic four
> has sucked royally and the mighty avengers is pure
> trash. New avengers and astonishing x-men have
> been by far marvels best team books in along time,
>
>
> On another note I don't read a lot of x titles
> becouse of the constant flip flopping of
> characters. Exp. emma frost is a villian not a
> x-men, gambit is one day x-men next marrauder?
> Perhaps a little to much drama and not enough good
> stories.

Thanks MTC, your opinion is appreciated! That's why I posted the thread! I wanted to know if others felt the same and they don't have to agree with me or my list of disturbing teams!

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"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"

My complaint about the churn is regarding the lack of stability, a lot of it driven by disregarding continuity or established character traits to slap on parts that don't fit to make a square peg go into a round hole and vice versa to meet someone's desires no matter how awful it is. Because of that when good characterizations and change-ups come along they get lost or ignored because of the flood of bad material, and isn't that unfair to that good work having it get lost under bad? Defending everything no matter how awful doesn't make anything good come about, and raises up those less than worthy of praise over those more deserving.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

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[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

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[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

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Emma Frost has been affiliated with the X-Men since 1994 [Phallanx Covenant anyone?] So her being a 'good guy' isn't exactly anything new when it's been 14 years.

As for Gambit, he's always switched sides since pretty much Day 1, but if anyone needs an example of when this happened, a little longer ago, remember the trial of Gambit in 1996? That was only 5 years after the character 1st appeared.

But i do agree New Avengers is awesome, and has the most unorthodox of the Avengers teams. But it's an exceptional title. Astonishing X-Men... too bad Joss Whedon can't write his way out of a paper bag. Can't wait till Warren Ellis' run on the book starts.

I'm not sure if Emma's quite that good, but her evolution to a more heroic mindset was for the most part well handled (although her psychic affair with cyclops was rediculous). Being out for herself and her best success it simply ended up over time to be clear to her she was on the wrong side and it was better for her to fight alongside the X-men and use that for her benefit instead of against them.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread