Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?

Posted by Punstarr 
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Re: Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?
July 20, 2007 03:36PM
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Well then the best way to say you don't like it is to actually write in, e-mail, etc. to express your dislike, as a negative of simply not buying the comic(s) says nothing. Not buying really needs to be linked with writing in and telling them what you think about things if you want to really see change.

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Re: Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?
July 20, 2007 05:02PM
capocastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comics and the constitution are hardly the same
> thing.
>
> Comics are a hobby. And if someone doesn't like a
> hoby, what sense does it make to spend good money
> on the hobby when all it does is serve to piss you
> off and make you complain? The way to truly make
> your voice heard is to /take the money away/. If
> you buy a car and it constantly breaks down, would
> you buy the same type of car? If you keep putting
> good money down on repairs and it still keeps
> @#$%& up, would you get a different car? Sure.
>
> But what won't change anything is giving a company
> money when they don't give you what you want. If
> you give them your money, that's /tacit support/
> of the product you purchased. The only thing that
> will cause a change in the product is if the
> product makes less money than it did before.
>
> And as the comment in question was directed at
> nightmask, the fact of the matter is, any topic
> comes up about Marvel's current comics, the same
> complaints always come up. And if you really
> don't like it anymore, it's dumb to stay involved
> in it. No less keep spending money on it. That
> money can go towards hobbies that actually produce
> some enjoyment.

Capo, you're not a bad guy and not foolish. But you specialize in the art of misdirection and false dilemmas! I can make analogies all day that suit my agendas, but how relevant they are matters! Some more than others. Weak one's like the one(s) you used here are called Straw Man arguments. Everything with you seems to fall into either or situations that are just plain false.

Example; if you like comics but hate the writing you can buy them but hate it. You can not buy them and hate it. You can buy them and hate it while writing in telling them you hate it. You can not buy it and hate it and write in to tell them you hate it. And you can walk away all together. Does that seem at all like your suggestions, that in sum add up to one or two options at best. Nightmask is correct, not buying in an economy only suggests marketing issues. It says nothing of content! Nightmask has consistently argued for content! Just like an American arguing for a better nation has to change the constitution in order to improve the laws of the land ensuring that change holds out! Just cause you can't see the link between the arguments doesn't mean they don't exist! Changing the way the country is running can only be certainly addressed if you change the constitution, while nothing changes with certainty if you leave the country!

Nothing is guaranteed! Not even with the best of efforts or intentions. But notice of discontent is needed and loss of money is not sufficient notice in the area of content! It can only be speculated! As far as hobbies, again with your opinions! I have come to appreciate them. But they hold no value to anyone but yourself! How someone sustains or maintains their hobbies is entirely up to them and rational/logic/and stupidity are not ever a possible factor! Obviously you miss the point that some of us are making. Aside from a hobby, comics had something called integrity, the Marvel name and history stood to represent this for a time and promised this as a quality that their readers could rely on. This my friend, is not an issue that can be resolved purely by economics alone!
Re: Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?
July 23, 2007 09:44AM
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Well since I've empowered Nightmask and Others by directing them to a location where they can make their discontent heard, how exactly am I building 'Straw Men' to make my point.

A starw Man argument in debate is an argument designed to distract someone away from the original point, so they can destroy it and not refute a stronger argument i can pull thgrough later to win because the refutation against it is weak; everything was wasted on the 'Straw Man'.

But here's my point.

I truly believe Nightmask is being honest about his feelings towards comics. I don't agree at all, but even if I can't relate to Nightmask's opinions I wanted to simply ask him, why? If he doesn't like the product, why pay for it. I as a person don't understand paying for something that doesn't give joy when it's a hobby.

I admit that the language i use is exagerative and I use it to underscore a point. But I see people like Nightmask every week. i go to my local comic shop to get my books for the week and i see guys standing there and they flip through books and what happens pisses them off, but then they buy the book. Why? I really don't get supporting something that makes me irritated. That's why WWE hasn't gotten any of my pay per view dollars in like 2 and a half years. Until they start pushing events i want to see, they can go @#$%& themselves.

But what you call a straw man argument, really, is me trying to understand where someone is coming from, even if i don't happen to agree with them.

Re: Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?
July 23, 2007 06:48PM
avatar
No, you really don't see people like me every week, since I don't buy a comic when it degrades enough that I just can't wait it out to get better again. I dropped the X-men, Incredible Hulk, and other titles once they dropped too low and stayed too low to rate $3 or more a piece for each title. I might re-add Hulk if it continues to hold to the improvements it's gained recently, or at least get the compilations. So, don't try and lump me in with a dismissable group you look down upon to make it easier for you to ignore my points.

Also you do use Straw Man arguments that don't accurate reflect an issue and are meant to create nonsensical comparisons and/or associations in order to distract from the points made or keep from addressing points that undermine your own. While I appreciate the feedback link it doesn't mean I'll accept such comparisons of 'oh his type comes around my shop all the time', as I'm not a kind, I'm an individual with valid complaints and opinions.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?
August 01, 2007 03:54PM
capocastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well since I've empowered Nightmask and Others by
> directing them to a location where they can make
> their discontent heard, how exactly am I building
> 'Straw Men' to make my point.
>
> A starw Man argument in debate is an argument
> designed to distract someone away from the
> original point, so they can destroy it and not
> refute a stronger argument i can pull thgrough
> later to win because the refutation against it is
> weak; everything was wasted on the 'Straw Man'.
>
> But here's my point.
>
> I truly believe Nightmask is being honest about
> his feelings towards comics. I don't agree at
> all, but even if I can't relate to Nightmask's
> opinions I wanted to simply ask him, why? If he
> doesn't like the product, why pay for it. I as a
> person don't understand paying for something that
> doesn't give joy when it's a hobby.
>
> I admit that the language i use is exagerative and
> I use it to underscore a point. But I see people
> like Nightmask every week. i go to my local comic
> shop to get my books for the week and i see guys
> standing there and they flip through books and
> what happens pisses them off, but then they buy
> the book. Why? I really don't get supporting
> something that makes me irritated. That's why WWE
> hasn't gotten any of my pay per view dollars in
> like 2 and a half years. Until they start pushing
> events i want to see, they can go @#$%&
> themselves.
>
> But what you call a straw man argument, really, is
> me trying to understand where someone is coming
> from, even if i don't happen to agree with them.


As far as I am concerned, this issue is finished with me. But I feel the need to address something important! Capo, as you can see.....I haven't agreed with a lot of what you said, but I have given you credit when I felt you made good points. I also noted that you place your words and arguments well. But at times you misrepresent or under-emphasize certain points that you don't agree with. At times it may appear that there is a bandwagon mentality at work where people are ganging up on you. Instead, I truly hope to open your eyes to a negative pattern in your style of argumentation. It matters cause it may very well be unintended, but it comes across as disrespectful or insulting. I won't assume you mean to be, so I'd rather point out what I see as a mistake.

To add a little more; a straw man is actually an argument the speaker uses to make his case look stronger by making his opponents appear weaker and it's not so much to draw attention away or distract, as that is a "Red Herring." I prefer that you just present your case as best as possible while doing the same when presenting other's. And may the best case win! I do not intend to have it be a bash session on you or your ideas. I felt the need to say this cause I don't want to diminish your attempts to be honest and fair! This, I believe anyone deserves until they prove otherwise!
Re: Is Dr Strange being toned down too much?
August 02, 2007 06:23PM
Yes. He is being toned down too much. I cannot pin it down for you yet. Perhaps some if not all published Marvel material from 2000 AD forward has been tainted.

I find solice and sense in the feats, powers and stories from the 60's to the late 90's. Something went screwy after the turn of the century.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2007 06:32PM by Secret Defender.

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