World War Hulk

Joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought Sentry had the power to calm the Hulk
> down?


supposedly, yes. but the last time he did it his dark side betrayed hulk abd broke every bone in his body.

Marvel in an interview illuded it wont be so easy this time.

If Sentry's anywhere near as powerful as is being hinted at, Hulk stands zero chance against him.

Wait... -DRAX- killed THANOS? When did he get that much power?

Ah, I assumed they meant Hulk was immune because he was in the middle of a mindless rage.

He doesn't, some writer just ignored the virtually indestructable nature of Thanos and his being immortal and had Drax kill him. You know, part of that disregarding of continuity some of us despise and marvel has been embracing.

Drax has always been pretty much a joke and more of a threat to everyone except Thanos since his creation. Sure he's got some physical power and durability, and a measure of immortality, but it was below that of Thanos even when in a berserker rage. His only real value was his unerring homing instinct that let him always be able to track down Thanos and lead others to him.

Bah. Pun is displeased... somehow, this is Richards' fault. Pun knows it.

No, it's Iron Man's fault, it's always Iron Man's fault. Yes it is a thing of great displeasure unless you worship everything that comes out of Marvel.

Don't forget, the cursed Richards works with Iron Man. ;)

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He doesn't, some writer just ignored the virtually
> indestructable nature of Thanos and his being
> immortal and had Drax kill him. You know, part of
> that disregarding of continuity some of us despise
> and marvel has been embracing.
>
> Drax has always been pretty much a joke and more
> of a threat to everyone except Thanos since his
> creation. Sure he's got some physical power and
> durability, and a measure of immortality, but it
> was below that of Thanos even when in a berserker
> rage. His only real value was his unerring homing
> instinct that let him always be able to track down
> Thanos and lead others to him.


Ya got just about all that all wrong. IT wasnt bad writing it was pretty good writeing. ANd the only reason Thanos was ever immortal was because death did not want him. And Drax was never a throw away character and always fairly powerful. ALso he was DESTINED to destroy thanos and created for that purpose. SO I would say him killing Thanos is pretty well in line with continuity.

No I pretty much have it right. Even without Death's curse/blessing he was still effectively immortal due to his mutant Eternal status, plus his augmentations before his 'death' at Adam Warlocks's hands PLUS all the augmentations he did to himself after he came back.

Even if punching him in the chest and running a fist through his heart could have killed him (which it shouldn't have) Drax never had the power to do it. Cronos might have had the power to resurrect him but he didn't prove able to empower him enough to do more than annoy Thanos. The destiny stuff is also questionable as Drax was simply resurrected to hunt and oppose Thanos at every turn, but no way to guarantee he could ever beat him.

Someone just liked the idea of Thanos about to help and getting killed on the verge of doing so by an irrational act by Drax so much that they ignored the rest. It might have made sense if Drax were on par with Thanos when it comes to physical power but he isn't and probably wasn't even when he had the Power Gem.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2007 03:01AM by Nightmask.

Yes but only as a loyal henchmen, not as a False Big Bad. Maybe as a Mad Scientist Foil but hard to be sure. Funn how in comics it seems like if a villain reforms the more powerful he is the more he ends up a weakling joke as a hero, yet when heroes go wrong and turn villainous they just seem to get MORE powerful. Looks more like an incentive to be a villain than a hero in the comics, especially for heroes looking to be more powerful.

I suppose Death could have set Thanos up... she certain has the power to ensure a (relative) "weakling" like Drax could kill Thanos, after all. Not that's it's really it's style...

Got to agree with junderway on this one. Drax is a unsual being and we don't know what he is capable of with the knives and new powers.

Finally picked up the WWH limited today, along with some of the related titles, and have to say I love the work on it. Whoever is doing the writing it has restored my interest, at least for now, in the Hulk title. Seeing some people, including Hercules, actually picking his side given how wrongly he was treated was an incredible step up. I'll have to get the rest to see how it goes, and I hope we get to see Sampson getting a few poundings from the Hulk for his contribution on top of the Big Four.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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I read book 2 today as well as WW hulk xmen book 2. ANd let me say I have strongly mixed feeling about this whole series now. On the surface I think it is pretty cool to see the hulk try and destroy the earth and come head to head with so many great heros.

However on the other hand. Its being written in a way that there is really no challenge for the hulk. It doesnt even seem like it is the HULK anymore fighting all the heros but some new unstoppable menace. before hulk was on power levels even or slightly above guys like Ironman, vision, ect. Just about the top tier with only guys like Thor and surfer riseing above that group. Now however he is so grossly over powered that I dont even think Thor or surfer could take the guy out. I mean to put it in persepective I have seen the following all beat the Hulk in the past.

x-factor
thor
invisible woman
mr fantastic
wolverine
the U.S army

and this is just to name a few off the top of my head. Now it woujld take an elder of the universe or there abouts to beat the guy. Even guys like Hercules, ares, ironman, blackbolt, and prof x have failed to even slow him down let alone stop him.

So my problem is too fold. One its not much of a challenge thus not that interesting. Its like watching a football game that the score is 54 -0. Even if your teamis winning you begin to lose interest.

The other problem i have is how did Hulk get this strong? Well he just got madder, which means at any time in his history this could have happened. That Hulk could never really be defeated because he would just get madder. SO Hulk is unstoppable by design. Half the fun is reading a hero comic is seeinghow you hero gets out of troubnle. and seeing how Hulk never was and never could be in a any real trouble it loses i's flavor.

Finally what does marvel do with hulk from here? How does he get depowered to make him a hero again?

I doubt there've been any point in the past where the Hulk was in the position to have such an emotional connection to a person or group to where he could have been pushed to this level of rage. Remember that part of the problem with his child-like self was a problem with easily forgetting things once distracted. He's not that individual anymore, he's got close to if not equal to Banner's intellect and ability to remember events, underwent terrible ordeals he's never endured in the past AND after reaching the level of heroic acceptance on an alien world he was never given on earth he had it all taken away. That's what makes him so difficult to defeat now compared to his past selves.

Even when all his personality fragments were temporarily merged he couldn't have reached that level of rage because he didn't have anything he was so bonded to to empower him that far. Probably the only time we've seem him that close was in a what-if, and even then he hadn't the opportunity to reach the level of rage necessary to match the current version.

As far as his unbeatable status right now goes, I think it's more meant to reflect the rightness he feels in his actions, that after being betrayed at every step he's now acting as an avenging angel bringing payback for the sins of those who he thought were friends but only betrayed him time and again.

Eventually he'll likely either cause a repeal of the SRA and other attempts to enslave those who're different, or at least as he works through his rage will eventually lose it as he takes out all of those he feels betrayed him, and collapse as he lets himself feel the emotion he wants to over those he's lost but thinks he can't because it'll make him weak (grief, heartbreak, and loss of course).

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Always good stuff Nightmask. I see him becoming the reason the SRA is abandoned as it may take multiple heroes/villains, like with Onslaught, to take him down. They may refuse till they have their freedom to act without government say so or knowledge of their identities. One possibility I'd like to see play out. Imagine if Cap was killed here instead, trying to stop the Hulk?!

This has been my favorite thread so far. Don't really disagree with anyone! But I like the Hulk dishing out so much payback. Continuity is everything to me, but a mental shield is fine with me if it means Prof. X gets spanked! Wanna see the Sentry spanked!:!)-D Glad to hear Thanos is dead:D, so over powered for no reason, and actually glad it was at the hands of Drax! How humiliating.B!)-

Yeah, I guess you can tell I'm not too happy with all this Marvel stuff lately, but the Hulk doing his thing laying waste to everything is right in line with my feelings. LOVE IT!(:!D They need to make up their mind if the Hulk will be the Maestro or not! And just in case anyone forgot, he did kill the Silver Surfer and Thor! For me, Hulk always had this potential, but never in this supply and frequency. His rage and strength, like Superman's, has been used as a plot device so many times and this time seems no different. The only thing is that this time I like it, even if it falls out of continuity!::!o

Thanks, although I can see it more being a result of unregistered heroes doing the final battle and succeeding where the enslaved or sell-out heroes like Iron Man and the rest fail. That sets the example that only those fighting for what's right rather than a paycheck or out of fear can go that extra mile to save the world.

Hmmmm, having finally read the issue where Professor X attempted to mind control the Hulk it's less a mental shield and more just so much rage as to make it almost impossible for someone who lacks experience in it to force through to his core being and get him under control. Of course that leaves a bit of curiousity as to how he'd hold up against the Corrupter this time around. He once gained almost permanent control over the Hulk via his mind-control chemicals by enraging the Hulk and touching him, as he found they worked best on people in a rage. Then again at this point I doubt that'd have much chance of working on him with the mind and rage he has now, other than to tick him off.

Eh, not particularly happy with the scripting on Thanos's death, especially at Drax's hands. Not only was Drax always a joke but Thanos was far too powerful for Drax to ever punch his fist through his chest. As far as his power levels go Thanos has had a number of reasons to justify his power levels (Cosmic Cube, Death's boost when she returned him to life, Infinity Gauntlet, Heart of the Universe), although he admittedly shouldn't have been that close to Galactus in power.

I believe I saw a statement somewhere that there is only one Maestro and that the Earth-616 Hulk will never become him (although after that Exiles encounter I wonder if they created a divergence or not).

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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daikumanoken Wrote:
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> Wanna see the
> Sentry spanked!:!)-D

Somehow I think the Sentry will be the one guy the Hulk can't take. Marvel's just been waiting for an opportunity to show just how powerful their new "Superman" is.

> Glad to hear Thanos is
> dead:D, so over powered for no reason, and
> actually glad it was at the hands of Drax! How
> humiliating.B!)-

Hey, I loved Thanos. :(

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> daikumanoken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wanna see the
> > Sentry spanked!:!)-D
>
> Somehow I think the Sentry will be the one guy the
> Hulk can't take. Marvel's just been waiting for
> an opportunity to show just how powerful their new
> "Superman" is.
>
> > Glad to hear Thanos is
> > dead:D, so over powered for no reason, and
> > actually glad it was at the hands of Drax! How
> > humiliating.B!)-
>
> Hey, I loved Thanos. :(

Not trying to tick anyone off, but that just makes me sick!! The whole reason I want Sentry wasted by Hulk is cause he IS the most ridiculously obvious Superman clone/wannabe/knock-off I have ever seen. I know folks like Thanos but he an Sentry are purposeless characters to me. Yes, THAT'S MY OPINION! What the heck are they doing there (in the M.U.) and why don't they just die and stay dead?! Funny how Sentry resembles Superman and Thanos resembles Darkseid?! Wasn't my intention, I just never could stand either one of them! Hate me for it!

Well I doubt Thanos was meant to resemble Darkseid intentionally, and from that Marvel/DC battles maxi-series crossover even Darkseid couldn't match Thanos for sheer evil depravity (everyone else watched the skies turning to a bloody rain as the end near and even with Darkseid bothered by it only Thanos looked up, smiled, and called it beautiful).

For a villain I've always liked him as a serious challenge for top-tier superheroes, had everything needed to test anyone against him, just like Dr. Doom.

Now Sentry I hated for being such an obvious Superman plant, especially with the retcon run to make it as if he was always part of the marvel universe but everyone just forgot. Of course that's impossible because there are a variety of mutants and other beings who would have been immune to any kind of mind-tampering required to make them forget him for one.

To be able to rewrite every mind on the planet without exception and be as powerful as they're making him out to be they're basically ranking him equal or greater than the Molecule Man or a fully powered Cosmic Cube. Considering how much hate response I hear regarding the Beyonder, Molecule Man, Infinity Gauntlet, and all these other so-called Omega class, infinite potential characters like they made Scarlet Witch and how Franklin Richards has always been I can't see how anyone could accept slapping someone like Sentry into the universe after rejecting the others without being a hypocrite.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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