Doomsday VS Hulk !! Really?
Posted by junderway
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All in all, I believe that the DC Universe has characters that are ultimately more powerful "on paper" than does the Marvel Universe.
Superman is a prime example. When Marvel makes their own Superman-wannabees, the end up either ridiculously powerful (like the Sentry) to the point where they need to incorporate some sort of powerful "catch" to make the character worth writing about, OR they have everyone else beat up on him (Gladiator) to show which Marvel characters can "beat" Superman. Doomsday for all purposes is a DC Hulk-wannabe. An engine of destruction, fueled by rage... it doesn't get any more obvious than that. The fact that they made him immortal through evolution is a unique twist, but the mindless brute concept is already taken. And if we want to go off stating character differently, we can go ahead and allow Hulk to shift into "Beyond" strength, as it has been both implied and shown in the comics that his strength cannot be measured. I'd rather leave him at UN, however, since that IS the benchmark for incalculable strength in this game. I guess the idea that Doomsday killed Superman is DC's way of saying that the Hulk can actually beat Superman too...
Lets not act like it is a big horrible thing that DC stole a big strong guy that just wants to kill everything. Who may or not even be a copy of hulk. I mean after all the hulk was not an orignial idea by any means when he was created.
The greatness of Doomsday is not that he is big and strong the great, semi origial (for a super enemy) is the fact that he adapts to everything and can't be killed. That is the basis of his character not his strength. Where the hulks strength is the basis of his character. The hulk has been beaten by a collection of people or by other really powerful heroes. They same can not be said for Doomsday. X-factor beat the hulk. Does anyone thing x-factor could beat doomsday?
Like I said before (maybe in other posts as well), the DC universe is filled with uber-power houses. Doomsday is no exception. Marvel creates "real" heroes. Everyday people with powers. It isnt't fair to compare the 2 comic companies' characters, even in crossovers. In Marvel, a powerhouse like Superman would be insane (think Sentry). Quiksilver vs. Flash... gimme a break. The Flash is so fast he could probably kill most of the Marvel Universe on his own. Even Batman, a "human" has his extremes.
Not that I do not like DC. I am an avid Superman fan (at work thats my nickname), but the power-levels are not at all comparable. Limitless strength in the Marvel Universe is what the weakest strong guy in DC has. I just love these discusions because there is never a solution. Like I mentioned in my last post, even a winner in this battle-to-be will be blamed to be fighting against a "dumb" opponent or some other "excuse/reason" to not validate a victory.
Sure, X-Factor could beat Doomsday...if he were written with the same drawbacks and weaknesses that the Hulk had when he fought X-Factor. Havok is a character that pretty much has complete control over all radiation. He can absorb it, blast it, take it away, change it, ect. The Hulk is a creature made from radiation. Big problem. If some worthless nobody comes up and has the power to give and take away evolotionary adaptations at will, Doomsday is screwed.
Another thing...the Hulk is either near mindless, or intelligent most of the times. He's far more suseptable to mind effects than the completely mindless Doomsday. It virtually always takes an entire team of heroes to bring down Hulk. Doomsday has been beaten by one single man on at least three different occations...killing that man the first time (while at the same time being killed himself), and then doing progressively worse and worse each battle there after. Another problem with these DC vs. Marvel fights is that For whatever reason the DC company favors it's heroes, giving them vast power ups for little or no reason, while Marvel does the exact same thing with it's villains. Does anyone really think that Captain Boomerang is a match for the god-like Flash? Does anyone actually believe that Electro at his most powerful should struggle with Spiderman? Darkseid has had his butt handed to him on a million different occations by Superman. He can't even take one single goofy hero. Thanos on the other hand, I don't believe has ever been physically beaten down by anyone.
Who cares? Doomsday was a vehicle to justify the gimmick of "The Death of Superman." He was a boring character that no longer has a reason to exist. In my book "real" characters like Superman, Darkseid, and the Hulk (all of whom could defeat him in many ways), should not be made to look bad by a dull quasi-character like this. I mean, jeez, anyone could create a MSH character with Unearthly abilities and tons of Shifted powers and such, but without the "heart and soul", it's all pointless.
Robert Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Who cares? Doomsday was a vehicle to justify the > gimmick of "The Death of Superman." He was a > boring character that no longer has a reason to > exist. THANK GOD. Somebody finally said it. I'll go back to my stress-free web now. Skarlett da Thankful Spyder ________________________________________________________________________________ "All who wander are not lost." J.R.R. Tolkein "History and experience have taught us that the oldest among our kind invariably prove the most formidable." Sage, X-Treme X-Men #43 "You leap like a hyena in heat!!" Conan to Wolverine, What If...? #16 "Useless, all useless...I was once a MAN!!" Cobra Commander, G.I. Joe the Movie
DC makes their GOOD guys umber strong. This isn't Superman vs. Thor or Flash vs. Spiderman...it's The Hulk (Marvel good guy but sometimes bad guy) vs. Doomsday (DC bad guy.) The majority of DC's bad guys suck big time and the writers can't even justify their good guys struggling for a panel with them, let alone an entire comic. Captain Cold and Captain Boomerang vs. The Flash? Give me a break.
Doomsday has this big bad evolution power you keep bringing back up...yet that same power becomes more and more worthless and useless everytime he and Supes have squared off. I believe in the very last comic battle they had, DC had made "Doomsday Prime" or something...the same monster but with intelligence, and Superman butt raped him (I call it character love...and Superman gets it unjustifably A LOT of it!) DD just won't beat the Hulk. His evo power doesn't work the way it should in the past several comics (he never did "adopt" to that lame teleport trap that Superman lured him into). Thus the Hulk will win.
If that is the case then he is the worse hero marvel ever created. What is the point of a hero you know can't lose, can't die.
no where has it been stated firmly at least that hulk is immortal. Hulk can lose and die unlike doomsday. Yes, Doomsday was a writers gimmick and has gotten progessively weaker each appearances. So what. We are evaluating the character as it stands in principle not the bad writing or the need to sell comics that surrond it. I mean there are a lot of things we could just discount in comics because they were writing gimicks but we dont.
The DCU's no stronger than the MU, they just put most of their most powerful characters (Superman, Wonder Woman, Batgod, Flash, Green Lantern) on the same team, while Marvel spreads theirs out (The Defenders -- Dr. Strange, Hulk, Namor, and Silver Surfer -- is actually the closest analogue). DC's main comics focus on their most powerful characters, and so it looks like DC is more powerful than Marvel.
DC's heroes are definitely stronger than it's villains, with only a few exceptions. Marvel is kind of the reverse of that. Not many Marvel heroes are able to go one on one with a marvel villain but lots of villains hang in there with entire teams. The only hero in marvel that is shown to hang in there against teams of marvel villains is spider-man, and we all know he's either really weak or unbeatable depending on who's writing him.
I think that if you guage the power of a hero by comparing it to its universe's villains, then DC does seem stronger than marvel. The power gap is huge between sides. Most DC villains are smart guys in suits and gorillas. If any of the DC heroes learned how to fight the vilains wouldn't stand a chance. These guys are causing ripples in reality with punches or returning cities to life with thoughts. (when most of your villains have handguns, batons or canes as the source of all their power and they give you trouble, its time to start chopping off hands)
DC's got some doozy supervillains -- Amazo, Brainiac, Cyborg Superman, Darkseid, Doomsday, Eclipso, The General, Mordu the Dark Lord, Metallo, Neron, Sinestro, Zoom. They're more than just "guys in suits and gorillas."
There are lots of low-powered Marvel villains -- that's kinda why the whole "Masters of Evil" thing started. And many of Spidey's foes aren't that powerful. Again, the difference is what each company chooses to focus on. It was a villain (Superboy Prime) who caused ripples in reality with his punches. Only if you're the Punisher... or Wolverine... or a member of The Authority....
Marvel has far more super teams then does DC. FF, avengers, x-men(and all its teams), alpha flight, ect. So they have a lot of villians that are built to take on these teams. Where as DC creates its villians to give each one of its heros a challege. They dont really create too many villians to challege teams but rather to challenge each individiual hero. So the villians are on par with the heros.
I'm no authority on DC, but from what I've seen watching the cartoons and all, DC heroes regualrly engage in actions that are quite unique in MU.
Lifting entire buildings for example... which easily weigh far in excess of 1000 ton. How many Marvel heroes have lifted buildings? One. On one single occassion. In fact, DC has a hero that can not only lift buildings, but *entire planets*. And on top of that he is well nigh invulnerable, has super-speed that rivals Quicksilvers, an optic blast to make Cyke turn green with envy, etc. Speaking of speedsters, which Marvel hero compares to the Flash with his "Speed factor" or whatever it is? The Runner... maybe, but then he doesn't count. How about Quicksilver? Northstar? Pffft. Not even close. There's two of the most obvious, that even someone that doesn't read DC can point out. And thats not even mentioning GL, with his e-m/light/gravity manipulating, telekinetic ringy-thingy. One of many. Nova Corp. eat your heart out... kitties. ------------------------------------------------  Powersurge (history, pics) [www.classicmarvel.com]
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------------------------------------------------ "You just decided *all by yourselves* that you are the Earth's protectors. And that you, and *only* you, not your teammates or family, are trustworthy enough to include in the process..." T'Challa, The New Avengers: Illuminati 1
I Agree with the doc and junderway on this one. If dc is so strong why do people feel the ultimate avengers could beat the jla, or thor would destroy superman etc. In marvel we regularly see people changing reality the list has become huge and the amount of uberclass characters has risan dramatically. I mean didn't scarlet witch just about wipe out the entire mutant population.
And as far as cosmic characters marvel deeply outclasses dc. Celestials, galactus beyonders the list goes on and on. I often hear the argument that marvel hero's are more realistic or human in there power levels but I can think of just as many dc characters that are of same class. Batman, robin, nightwing, gaurdian crime buster, thorn there are many more I feel that the universe are pretty balanced as power goes.
Dr Archeville Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > DC's got some doozy supervillains -- Amazo, > Brainiac, Cyborg Superman, Darkseid, Doomsday, > Eclipso, The General, Mordu the Dark Lord, > Metallo, Neron, Sinestro, Zoom. They're more than > just "guys in suits and gorillas." > > There are lots of low-powered Marvel villains -- > that's kinda why the whole "Masters of Evil" thing > started. And many of Spidey's foes aren't that > powerful. > > Again, the difference is what each company chooses > to focus on. > > It was a villain (Superboy Prime) who caused > ripples in reality with his punches. > > (when most of your villains have handguns, batons > or canes as the source of all their power and they > give you trouble, its time to start chopping off > hands) > Only if you're the Punisher... or Wolverine... or > a member of The Authority.... Superboy prime isn't really a villain, he's a confused version of superboy, not a true villain in his own right. The truth is, the only way DC can make an interesting fight is by turning heroes evil. You've named every powerful DC villain with the exception of maybe extant. Most of those guys wouldn't survive alone against the entire JL (darkseid, doomsday and braniac if he had time to prepare something good, are the exceptions), which is the point i was trying to make. They may try to make it interesting but we all know there's no chance Why don't DC heroes go around choppin off hands? they've been fighting the same guys forever!! |
