Animated Matchup- Justice League v Ultimate Avengers

I recently saw the Ultimate Avengers movie and have long enjoyed the DCAU. How would you rate the original 7 Justice Leaguers (or Justice Lords + Flash) against the version of the Avengers as shown for title of Earth's Greatest Heroes?

Consider these starting match-ups, feel free to change dance partners

Batman v Black Widow (or switch with Cap)
Hawk-Girl v Captian America (Mace v Shield)
Green Lantern v Ironman (ring v suit)
Flash v Wasp (hard to hit v hard to see)
J'onn J'onnz v Hulk (psi v strength)
Wonder Woman v Thor (lasso v Hammer)
Superman v Giantman (change of partners?)

Well, it seems that the DCUA has the power advantage here, but of course, how are they portrayed in the shows? It seems that the Hulk is unstoppable on his own. So granted the way they depict him, if he can single handedly defeat the Avengers, I do not see why he wouldn't be able to do likewise against the Justice Leaguers ESPECIALLY with everyone else's help.

Didja see the JLU ep Patriot Act? Some low-tier JLUers took out a Hulk-esque character.

'Course, they were able to do so in part b/c of who it was, so it's not a perfect comparison, of course. A better thing to look at would be when they tackled Doomsday.

Honestly, I could easily see Flash, GL, Wonder Woman, or Supes taking out all the Ult Avengers. And here's part of the reason why -- the so-called "power discrepancy" between DC and Marvel isn't that big when you consider the fact that DC keeps most of their ultra-powerful characters -- Flash, Superman, Green Lantern -- all on one team (the Justice League). Marvel doesn't do that, they spread their heavy hitters around. Thus, it's a case of some of DC's most powerful folks agaisnt Marvel's powerful-but-not-most-powerful folks.

Another part of the reason is that the JLU -- especially the Core Seven -- know how to work as a team, and have a lot of experience doing so (even in the first ep they seemed to work well together). The Ultimate Avengers (from the 'toon) really don't, and that's gonna be a big downfall. Especially when Hulk loses it and starts attacking everyone indiscriminately.

Dear Doctor. Or anyone, I guess, I'm not picky,
It didn't strike me as too odd at the time, but recently, I started wondering about using a syringe, even a pretty futuristic looking one, on the Hulk, like they did on the DVD. Shouldn't it, like, not penetrate his skin or something? For that matter, how do medical procedures work on characters with body resistance or other defensive powers? How about getting a haircut?

"My parents went to The Secret Wars Battleworld and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt..."

Batman v Black Widow (or switch with Cap)
Hawk-Girl v Captian America (Mace v Shield)
Green Lantern v Ironman (ring v suit)
Flash v Wasp (hard to hit v hard to see)
J'onn J'onnz v Hulk (psi v strength)
Wonder Woman v Thor (lasso v Hammer)
Superman v Giantman (change of partners?)

Looking at the matchups that were first made the winners seem really clear in every instance. If they pair off like that the ultimates don't stand a chance

I think it will also matter in what universe they fight, since flash is powerless in marvel's uni

in the dcAu, flash, batman superman and GL would win outright leaving only cap, thor and the hulk to fight everyone. The hulk would get all, this is my fight on thor and then it will really be over. oddly enough based on the movie and the shows it will probably come down to cap and supes in the end

i would make the matchups like so for a more even outcome

Hawk-Girl v Black Widow
Wonder Woman v Captian America
Batman v Ironman
J'onn J'onnz v Wasp
Green Lantern v Hulk (or switch GL & Flash, either fight would be funny)
Superman v Thor
Flash v Giantman

Thanks for the feed back. I think the two teams pretty well balanced powerwise. Certainly teamwork would play a huge role when power levels are close. I hear the expression Omega level used and while I'm not clear just what that means I would think Thor and Hulk qualify and could give Superman or any of the other orginial seven a very difficult time. As for the League being vastly more powerful, I believe the animated versions are shown to be powered down from what I've read in the comics. I would think Thor (what's with the ax?), Ironman, Cap, and Black Widow are experienced with their powers, just not yet used to working with each other.

As for rating the matchups I proposed using the Manhunter against Hulk in order to delay the fight until reinforcements could be summoned and figuring he woud be the best chance of effecting him telepathically or of injecting him. I think Thor while powerwise a good match for Superman would make for a better battle of ancient warrior skill against Wonder Woman. I figured GL could match Ironman's technical array of powers with the power ring's array of effects. I think Flash like J'onn could be good at distracting and aiding those in trouble with blindside attacks, but figured he could be best used to counter Wasps stealth via size and dodge her ranged attacks. I figured Hawkgirl and Batman being the most human scaled physical fighters of the League could matchup well with Cap and Black Widow. Cap physically matches Batman well and are their respective team strategists.

Maybe Hawkgirl v Blackwidow would be a better match. As for Superman and Giantman I put them together as leftovers, but maybe Superman v Hulk or Thor, leaves Wonder Woman to counter Giantman. She has certainly proven herself against Giganta, like Superman has Titano. I wouldn't think Flash or Giantman are likely to effect each other. Maybe Giantman, Thor, or Hulk could stop/trip Flash with a GroundStrike/Shockwave.

In Stranger's matchups, I would think Ironman powerwise over matches Batman on a scale like Wonder Woman overmatches Cap?

As for Hulk against all, I would think that either team should be able to subdue him, but think the League or certainly the ruthless Justice Lords present a more formidable challenge for the Hulk.

One question I have regarding GL v Hulk, could GL capture Hulk in a large sphere that is not subject to strength to bust out of? I remeber GL capturing Volcanna and Firefly and saw them flameout due to restricted air in a sphere. Most foes seem to burst out with energy attacks.

Also does the animated Manhunter have telepathic abilities suitable to calming Hulk or restoring Dr Banner's mind?

Quote

It didn't strike me as too odd at the time, but recently, I started wondering about using a syringe, even a pretty futuristic looking one, on the Hulk, like they did on the DVD. Shouldn't it, like, not penetrate his skin or something? For that matter, how do medical procedures work on characters with body resistance or other defensive powers? How about getting a haircut?

Presumably, it was an adamantium syringe. Otherwise, it shouldn't have penetrated Hulk's skin.

For surgery on supers, I highly recommend the comic MetaDocs (Antarctic Press). Only 2 issues out so far (as far as I know), but quite a good read. Well, I think it's a good read, anyway.
You can read Issue #0 of MetaDocs right here!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2006 08:12AM by Dr Archeville.

this was a really interesting topic for me

I don't think the iron man from the movie stands a chance against batman from the DCAU. He's only really taken out if he's caught completely by surprise. Like the episode in which he beat an entire super villain team only to go down because he didn't expect the leader chick had super strength. He had just koed grundy, he would have taken her easy had he known.

(i was noticing that the JL & JLU batman is a lot tougher than he was on his other toons, back then he would usually barely win his fights)

Likewise the flash was shown to be the strongest on the team in the episode where he ripped luthor apart when he was supposedly all powerful (one with braniac and those nanite things) I don't think anyone of the ultimates could have withstood that attack. ( maybe he would have split banner from the hulk with it?)

the dcau superman is somekind of a sadist or something who lets things beat on him only to rip them apart later with one decisive move. (the justice lord supes would totally dominate thor from the start) and I know I'm a notorious thor hater but he was the only one in the movie not to get up after the hulk hit him (even the tiny wasp got up after having her entire body smacked by mr banner).

wonderwoman and cap would be the most interesting fight to me. Is it just me or was he shown to have threshold as a power? he just wouldn't stay down

Gl wont beat the HUlk, he seems to be the most under powered in the DCAU. the energy blasts wont do much to the hulk, he took a direct hit from the beam that was turning everyone else to dust, without his anger boost, and was fine. Gl could slow him down enough for the others to be freed up though

I can't remember J'onn doing anything more than reading minds or talking to a person with his telepathy. I don't think his mental powers would be too effective vs the hulk. I guess he could try grabbing his head and diving in mentally but would he really want to be in the same mind with rage that powerful?

I have the Avenger movie on DVR and just bought the Star Crossed JL Movie. I 'll need to watch both again. Didn't Hulk KO Thor with his own Ax? I had forgotten how much punishment Cap took from the Hulk and kept coming back for more. Given how anti-climatic the Justice Lord Superman fight with Doomsday was, I could buy Thor or Hulk might be beaten in the same manner. I tone down the Heat vision to account for the rarity he uses it. I also find Supes rarely uses thwe hyperspeed he is shown to possess against powerful foe, and yes he does seem to be a saddist, taking hits for the team only to come back and hit hard.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It didn't strike me as too odd at the time, but
> recently, I started wondering about using a
> syringe, even a pretty futuristic looking one, on
> the Hulk, like they did on the DVD. Shouldn't it,
> like, not penetrate his skin or something? For
> that matter, how do medical procedures work on
> characters with body resistance or other defensive
> powers? How about getting a haircut?
> Presumably, it was an adamantium syringe.
> Otherwise, it shouldn't have penetrated Hulk's
> skin.
>
> For surgery on supers, I highly recommend the
> comic MetaDocs (Antarctic Press). Only 2 issues
> out so far (as far as I know), but quite a good
> read. Well, I think it's a good read, anyway.
> You can read Issue #0 of MetaDocs right here!!!

Thanks, Doc!

"My parents went to The Secret Wars Battleworld and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt..."

" Batman v Black Widow (or switch with Cap)

Hawk-Girl v Captian America (Mace v Shield)

Green Lantern v Ironman (ring v suit)

Flash v Wasp (hard to hit v hard to see)

J'onn J'onnz v Hulk (psi v strength)

Wonder Woman v Thor (lasso v Hammer)

Superman v Giantman (change of partners?) "


The Hulk was a beast in the Ultimate series. He took monster shots from Thor without even blinking. He tips the scales towards the Ultimate Avengers.

I think the match up hinges on how Green Lantern performs.

Hulk certainly seemed like the most fearsome if unreliable member of the Avengers, even dropping Thor for the count with his own Hammer (it looks like the animated Thor lacks extreme body armor). I think how quickly the early matchups could be resolved would be most significant. For example, if the Flash can very quickly locate and down Wasp, then teamup to help tip the scales against Cap and Black Widow, this could free up the numbers needed to subdue the more powerful Avengers.

I watched the openning Justice League again and was struck that it was J'onn J'onnz telepathic contact that stopped Superman in his batte with the parasitic white martians. He hid Batman's presence (psi-screed?) phased into two white martian troopers and rematerialized inside them, killing them.

I would think the Avengers would struggle to effect the Manhunter or Flash. If Thor's weapon/effects are magic based, then He should have the edge against Superman, which is why I figure Superman would likely switch partners with Diana or the J'onn. If the League failed to win some of these early matchups, I'm not sure they could stop a fully adrenalized Hulk in singular combat.

Ok lets get to it!

1)Batman would dispose of Black Widow...I dont want to say easily but it wouldnt be too hard!
2)Captain America would take out Hawkgirl, the length of this battle would only be because she can fly but ultimately Cap would win!
3)Green Lantern would take Iron Man...This would be the closest so far but GL would eventually win out!
4)This may shock you but I say Wasp takes Flash....He would start mouthing off and perhaps running circles round Hulk to confuse him....Wasp would slip into his mask and then in his ear and shock his @#$%& to unconscienceness.
5)Hulk would take Martian Manhunter unless MM has a psionic blast which I am not looking up now...then the nod goes to MM!
6)Thor would take Wonder Woman in a battle I think would be fantastic!
7)Superman takes Giantman with one punch!

Now you got Captain America and Batman and I would think this would be phenominal. I mean the speed of this fight and intricate moves as they fight would be like watching a dance.....Batman wins after catching Cap's Shield and clubbing him out with it...but Wasp takes out the Bat!

Green lantern gets the Hulk and after a few fancy tricks with his ring, Hulk smashes through a shield and knocks GL the F*ck out.....Superman sees he is outnumbered, grabs Hulk and flings him into Orbit....He then uses his super breath to blow Wasp into Thor and knock her out from the impact....Now supes has a weakness to magic, being he is more vulnerable.....Superman would have to dodge that hammer like a mother @#$%&....I say he heats up Mjolnir with his heat vision causing Thor to drop the hammer and then unloads on Thor with a blow sending the God of Thunder flying for miles.......but then Hulk lands and that is that...Hulk is just too much....so I say Avengers over JLU!

PinkFloyd4Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok lets get to it!
>
> 1)Batman would dispose of Black Widow...I dont
> want to say easily but it wouldnt be too hard!
> 2)Captain America would take out Hawkgirl, the
> length of this battle would only be because she
> can fly but ultimately Cap would win!
> 3)Green Lantern would take Iron Man...This would
> be the closest so far but GL would eventually win
> out!
> 4)This may shock you but I say Wasp takes
> Flash....He would start mouthing off and perhaps
> running circles round Hulk to confuse him....Wasp
> would slip into his mask and then in his ear and
> shock his @#$%& to unconscienceness.
> 5)Hulk would take Martian Manhunter unless MM has
> a psionic blast which I am not looking up
> now...then the nod goes to MM!
> 6)Thor would take Wonder Woman in a battle I think
> would be fantastic!
> 7)Superman takes Giantman with one punch!
>
> Now you got Captain America and Batman and I would
> think this would be phenominal. I mean the speed
> of this fight and intricate moves as they fight
> would be like watching a dance.....Batman wins
> after catching Cap's Shield and clubbing him out
> with it...but Wasp takes out the Bat!
>
> Green lantern gets the Hulk and after a few fancy
> tricks with his ring, Hulk smashes through a
> shield and knocks GL the F*ck out.....Superman
> sees he is outnumbered, grabs Hulk and flings him
> into Orbit....He then uses his super breath to
> blow Wasp into Thor and knock her out from the
> impact....Now supes has a weakness to magic, being
> he is more vulnerable.....Superman would have to
> dodge that hammer like a mother @#$%&....I say he
> heats up Mjolnir with his heat vision causing Thor
> to drop the hammer and then unloads on Thor with a
> blow sending the God of Thunder flying for
> miles.......but then Hulk lands and that is
> that...Hulk is just too much....so I say Avengers
> over JLU!

I did not agree with everything you said in the fight but I bought off on most of it. If i read it in a comic I would say wow good comic. THe only major problem I had was superman could not heat up Mjolnir the material strength is way too high. Not to mention it would simply just absorb the energy.

True true...I was just trying to find a way for them to match up...Perhaps Supes could just dodge a few blows and then knock Thor into tommorrow...I do like the idea of Supes tossing Hulk into the stratosphere to buy himself some time!

Well put! I switched mine around some and this is what I came up with:

Batman vs Captain America
--A very, very tough match. A fight we all know Don King would want part of. Hard to say, but I'd put my money on the Dark Knight. Cap has the shield and Bats has his toys. It's Bats' resourcefulness that would win in the end.

Wonder Woman vs Giant-Man
--In the first round WW trips GM with her magic lasso then beats the crap out of him. Game over and she goes to assist Martian Manhunter by distracting the Hulk.

Superman vs Thor
--The real loser in this bout is the terrain. The conflict might be prolonged, but eventually the Last Son of Krypton bests Odinson. Even if Goldilocks can absorb Kalel's heat beams with his hammer, few can best Supes in combat. His invulnerability, sheer power and speed more than make up for Mjolnir.

Martian Manhunter vs Hulk
--MM can distract Hulk with his phasing and shapeshifting. If he can use a mental attack against Hulk, then it's all over. If not, MM can keep him busy until the other heroes come to his defense.

Green Lantern vs Iron Man
--Ow. Ow. Ow. Supertechnology vs Alien technology. While I like GL better, I'd give Stark a slight advantage due to his suit's manifold abilities. As combatants, I think they are well-matched in terms of their fighting ability. IM wins.

Hawkgirl vs Wasp
--Hmmm. A toughie. Both can fly and Wasp has the advantage size-wise. HG can probably deflect many of Wasp's stings with her mace. If HG lands a blow, then it's over. This one could go either way.

Flash vs Black Widow
--Flash. Unless BW has the heads-up. Like Batman, she has to be resourceful but nine times out of ten I'd give the fight to Flash, who then runs out to get a beer, comes back to help out and make passes at Wonder Woman.

Who wins:
Batman
Wonder Woman
Superman
Martian Manhunter (with help)
Iron Man
Hawkgirl
Flash
Don King

Remaining Momboto, as usual.

---------------------------------------------
Sic Biscuitus Disentegrat.

What makes Hulk such a @#$%& is by the time help came he would be punching with the sheer force of a Nuclear Bomb!!!! Hulk is the ultimate trump card! I ran a future campaign one time....where they had cloned the Hulk and were using him as an army of Hulks.....nothing more intimidating than seeing 50 of those things heading for you!

Army of Hulks? ET say "Ouch!"

Remaining Momboto, as usual.

---------------------------------------------
Sic Biscuitus Disentegrat.

While this might already have been mentioned, I'd say that this battle wouldn't be won on an individual vs. individual basis, but rather on which side utilized more effective teamwork.

Based on what I saw in the cartoon-movie, Ultimate Avengers have no concept of team-work, and have too many lose canons to ever operate as an effective team.

The Justice League on the other hand has had plenty of time working together, understanding each other, and are unified in spirit. Flash is probably the biggest loose canon on the team, and while Bats might prefer to work alone, he is smart enough to "get" teamwork.

However, off the top of my head, I'm sure Ultimate Thor could take out Flash with some wind and ice... even some rain on those oily streets. As Ultimate Thor's true nature is a mystery, his ability to take out Superman is highly in doubt.

Mainstream Marvel Thor has as good of a chance as not vs. Supes, but Ultimate Thor is... an unknown quantity. Heck, Hulk lifted his hammer-axe!! Clearly he differs from mainstream Marvel Thor in other as yet unknown ways.

The ultimate trump card however is, as has been said, the Hulk. Could Supes take out an enraged Hulk?! Sheesh. I, as a mere mortal who might call the hypothetical battle-ground home, sure hope so. If not it would be up to Bats to analyze Hulk (after beating up Ultiamte Cap) while Superman held him back... maybe come up with somekinda of anti-gamma ray device or super-sedative. You know, Bats epitomizing Homo Sapiens Sapiens and all. As such, that is what Bats does... continually move up the food chain.