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Killing off PC's
Posted by Fangs
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ok I know that the book states, give the players a break. But the question needs to be put forward. At what point would you said sorry. The information was there right infront of you. Your character has perrished.
case in point. Said PC is in a new world setting (it is alot more dangerous. ) after previous world setting.. see this thread for more information: [www.classicmarvel.com] now after returning I point out that to the heros in the form of news paper clippings that extensive efforts have been put in place to stop the spread of all these creatures to the rest of the world. IE there is a huge impenetrable sphere placed around Australia. Said hero after all this tries to break through the sphere using near light spead movement. (This is his form of Teleport.) He has one power. Plasma Generation and this is at uneartly rank. What is your view... (td) = dead reasons please (tu) = Lives reasons please. ::!o = more inforamtion - what do you need to know.
Fangs Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > ok I know that the book states, give the players a > break. But the question needs to be put forward. > At what point would you said sorry. The > information was there right infront of you. Your > character has perrished. I hate having to kill off a good character that has developed some history, et al., but sometimes players must be left to their own bad decisions and the consequences or they start throwing caution to the wind ... having the rightly gleaned impression that the Judge won't allow them to die. My players last character for instance was trapped in a pac-man maze in Arcade's Murderworld. He heard the chomp-chomp-chomping of the giant razor toothed pac-man befor ehe saw ever saw it. And when he finally did it was already upon him and too late to run. However he noticed lose wires and such INSIDE the pac-man's mouth. In an attempt to get at them he was nearly chomped in two by it's razor shapr teeth, but he managed to jump in the mouth and tear the wires out ... thus disabling the pac-man. So, he caught his wind, and then once again began to hear chomp-chomp-chomping in the distance. He decided that if he could kill one, he could kill another ... obviously having forgotten the gaping wounds the last pac-man chewed into his synthoid arse. So, he waited for it, and once again got caught as he tried to jump into it's mouth. This time however, he didn't make his End FEAT against the Kill ... or perhaps it merely stunned him to begin with, but really what could I do other than sit and watch in horror? I mean he was trapped in an unknown place, quite wounded from his first encounter, and his girlfriend was somewhere else in the place he was caught in. That someone would sit around and wait for another pac-man seemed ... an unlikely possiblity. As for your player; how is he moving at lightspeed through the atmosphere to begin with?! Does he become light when he travels? How does he avoid being torn apart and vapourized via air friction? At any rate, anyone running into an "impenetrable" wall at supersonic speeds without some heavy duty protection is going to be a bug on a windshield. I don't see how he could survive. Death. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2006 07:26PM by Powersurge.
Does any GM out there still use the "mysterious death" rule? The character ( hero or villian but mostly villians ) seemingly dies and is out of action for some game time. But with the GM's or players help of some far fetched explanation can come back.
I wonder if PC's with the Robot origin would have an easier story reasons for coming back from with the use of "mysterious death"?
One of Powersurge's points bears further discusion. If the guy is running, flying or hopping at the speed of light, does he constantly have to roll to make sure he doesn't hit a seagull, a tree or the occasional Antman? I would think hitting one of those things would put anyone out of action, but not this guy. Even the earlier Starship Enterprise had a long range deflector thingy that pushed space dust out of the way because at those speeds, even a dust particle or a grain of sand from an old asteroid would blow through the hull. So how did this guy do it? Automatically went around stuff? Fantastic protection while moving? Or was he out of phase or immaterial? Some of those might not mean death. Maybe his a*s is stuck inside the wall for a month. Or his molecules got spread out and need time to reintergrate, perhaps minus a power or two. Or he broke every bone in his body. Or he tried to go (hypothetically) from Australia to New Zealand, teleported, but instead of appearing in NZ, found himself appearing right up against the wall (on the inside, obviously, having not escaped).If, as a plot device, you as GM need to keep your PCs in Australia, then just keep them there. If they try something to get out, don't think the consequence must be death just for trying. But there could be a consequence.
And may I add this? If I'm a hero (which I'm not), and I have superpowers (which I don't), the fact that the newspaper calls something inpenetrable isn't going to stop me from at least trying. That's what heroes do. Thanks for letting me pipe in. I may be correct on most of the above, because I am very clever this evening. I may only have Good Reason, but think I rolled a red FEAT. That would make this an Excellent answer. Except for my spelling -- especially the word inpenetrable. That doesn't even look close. MARK "My parents went to The Secret Wars Battleworld and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt..."
CROMM-WELL Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > I wonder if PC's with the Robot origin would have > an easier story reasons for coming back from with > the use of "mysterious death"? > Yep. Robots can always default to the "serial immortality" justification. They have numerous other identical bodies, and so when one is destroyed their consciousness just transfers/downloads into another body ... like Spartan from the WildCATs, or maybe Ultron(?). I was thinking of bringing my players pac-man slain synthoid back that way, but it is alittle more difficult when dealing with synthetics. And I mean, the guy really did deserve his death. He worked so hard for it.
see i expect better from my players... if the death is caused by say fighting a villain then i give them a chance. if it's caused by stupidity then i consider it learning curve and tell them to roll up a new one while i decide what happened at a later date.
that's just how i would handle it. possible out... he's dead jim. his powers kicked in and he's now someplace else... for later dramatic reveal. he's a prisoner inside the shield. it worked and he penetrated the impenetrable. "No where to hide. No place to run. Your village will BURN like the heart of the SUN!" - Richard, Head warlock of the Brotherhood of Darkness, Lord of the 13 Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the Undead, Lord of the Dance.
he vanishes on contact.
in a game months later a zombie form of the character, with some truly horrific powers returns to exact revenge on the remaining characters for letting him die, a horrible bloodbath ensues. I never killed anybody's character but nobody ever pulled a bonehead move like that. I reduced many a PC to zero endurance from combat but their team mates were always there to rush them to the ER while performing cpr or whatever sounded appropriate.
Mark Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > One of Powersurge's points bears further > discusion. If the guy is running, flying or > hopping at the speed of light, does he constantly > have to roll to make sure he doesn't hit a > seagull, a tree or the occasional Antman? If this were true, then no speedster comic book would ever be more than one issue... I think it's safe to presume that speedsters move in 'bullet-time'. Everything seems to be going in slow-motion to them. Racing across the country is no more dangerous to them than walking across the room. I'll ask for more information. What was the Material Strength of the wall? What was the Speed of the speedster? What is the Body Armor/Endurance (highest) of the speedster? Did the player spend Karma? > > And may I add this? If I'm a hero (which I'm not), > and I have superpowers (which I don't), the fact > that the newspaper calls something inpenetrable > isn't going to stop me from at least trying. > That's what heroes do. I could'nt agree more. There is no such concept as "impenetrable" in MSH or in comics. There is always a way. Even if something is set to 'Beyond' rank. That's kind of the whole point of comics - empowerment fantasy. If the GM did not have this information ahead of time, the PC was simply killed by GM's fiat. michael Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2006 05:35AM by michael.
Mark Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > One of Powersurge's points bears further > discusion. If the guy is running, flying or > hopping at the speed of light, does he constantly > have to roll to make sure he doesn't hit a > seagull, a tree or the occasional Antman? Actually, my point was that at the speed of light the atmosphere becomes "solid". Any character moving at the speed of light in the atmosphere would be burned/squished, unless they had "adequette", ie. super-duper, resistence. And those that had "adequette" resistence, would likely destroy the Earth. Or at least cause alot of havoc. Incidently, unlike other speedsters, neither Aurora nor Northstar have super-reflexes. Thus, they don't see in "bullet-time", and so must be quite careful with their speed!! Especially seeing as how they enjoy no great physical resistence.
Wait, Powersurge.
I've seen specials on Einstien. I think I remember Dopler Red Shift and relativity and the speed of light changing the perception of time. Of course, I understood none of it. :):S:) But I remember lots of the stuff I didn't understand. And I don't remember EVER hearing about this "atmosphere turns solid" thing. Could you explain a little bit when you have a moment? I'm curious. And please, type slow so I can understand... Also, would it help in such a case if the character at light speed was A) "out of phase" with the rest of reality, sometimes called ethereal, or if B) he actually changed to light (like energy body), so's he doesn't destroy the Earth or get squashed? MARK "My parents went to The Secret Wars Battleworld and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt..."
Mark Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > But I remember lots of the stuff I didn't > understand. And I don't remember EVER hearing > about this "atmosphere turns solid" thing. > Well, I'm no scientist, but basically it is the same principle as hitting water at high speeds ... save that the atmosphere isn't as dense as water and thus needs to be hit at considerably higher speeds than water to achieve the same "brickwall" effect. To demonstrate the "thickness" of our atmosphere; upper atmosphere free-falls approach the speed of sound, but in the lower atmosphere a human body can't fall much faster than 100 mph due to the thicker air. So, the thickness of the atmosphere actually causes a significant decrease in "terminal velocity" after a certain point in the fall. I suppose a further example of what happens to objects that don't slow considerably as they enter the atmosphere are the numerous meteors that hit us, most of which completely burn up (appearning as falling stars) upon entry. > > Also, would it help in such a case if the > character at light speed was A) "out of phase" > with the rest of reality, sometimes called > ethereal, or if he actually changed to light > (like energy body), so's he doesn't destroy the > Earth or get squashed? > Definitely. Light moves at the speed of light all over the Earth!! I think that Star Trek/the Fly type transporters work on some simliar principle of deconstructing the port-target and then shooting him along on some carrier wave at mass speeds.
Powersurge Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Well, I'm no scientist, but basically it is the > same principle as hitting water at high speeds ... > save that the atmosphere isn't as dense as water > and thus needs to be hit at considerably higher > speeds than water to achieve the same "brickwall" > effect. I get it. So when you hit water from a crazy hight, it's like hitting concrete; legs break, etc. (except in movies). That I knew. I didn't take it that extra step you did: At light speed, the atmospere would seem that way. The water doesn't "become" concrete. But it seems like it to the suicidal bridge-jumper. The atmoshpere wouldn't actually "become" thicker. It would just seem that way to a super-speedster without certain pre-requisites. See, I catch on eventually! > as they enter > the atmosphere are the numerous meteors that hit > us, most of which completely burn up (appearning > as falling stars) upon entry. And space capsules returning through Earth's atmosphere in Tom Hanks movies get red hot, too. OK, I'm up to speed. No pun intended. Thanks! > > > > > Also, would it help in such a case if the > > character at light speed was A) "out of > phase" > > with the rest of reality, sometimes called > > ethereal, or if he actually changed to > light > > (like energy body), so's he doesn't destroy > the > > Earth or get squashed? > Definitely. Light moves at the speed of light all over Earth!! Yes. I just said that to prove I'm not a complete dumb-a*s, and understood game mechanics enough to not destroy the Earth by accident. Well, in that case, anyway. I'm not making any promises. MARK "My parents went to The Secret Wars Battleworld and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt..."
> Mark Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------- > Actually, my point was that at the speed of light > the atmosphere becomes "solid". Any character > moving at the speed of light in the atmosphere > would be burned/squished, unless they had > "adequette", ie. super-duper, resistence. And > those that had "adequette" resistence, would > likely destroy the Earth. Or at least cause alot > of havoc. I've gotta source you on this! What comic book are you using to support this? What MSH rule are you using to support this? michael
michael Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I've gotta source you on this! What comic book are > you using to support this? What MSH rule are you > using to support this? Mark didn't write that, I did. My source would be real world physics. Try sticking your hand out a car window while driving down a highway if you want a 100 mph example of air density at (relatively) high speeds. Now, imagine doing the same at several hundred thousand miles per hour. Or note the effects of the atmosphere on meteors for another example. Now increase the meteors speed exponentially.
So then, things don't fall down? People don't need air to breath? Steel isn't stronger than regular bone? Fire doesn't burn? Et al.? Well, if real world physics have little to no bearing on YOUR super-hero game, whatever works for you. According to Marvel's though, both the game and the comics, speedsters have body resistence to prevent damage from air friction. And people capable of light or greater than light speed generally limit themselves in the atmosphere. They do this precisely because relative degrees of real world physics DO play a part in the superhero genre itself.
Boy you take things to literaly and personaly.:.D:.D I was under the impression the only speedster I remember having the friction thing mentioned was quicksilver? Also i beleive most stick to the atmosphere is becouse thats where they can breath. It just seems you want to take a game made fun by being simple and clog it up with a lot of real world problems. Hey but to each there own I guess until I play one of your games I should not judge and just shut my mouth.
The runner is one of the elders of the universe. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2006 04:38PM by muthal the cursed.
muthal the cursed Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > Boy you take things to literaly and personaly. > Do I?! Are you sure it's me and not you, maybe? Incidently, would these ---> :.D <--- represent fingers or thumbs? And if they are supposed to be thumbs, why would you thumbs up what you perceive to be a lack of social grace? > I > was under the impression the only speedster I > remember having the friction thing mentioned was > quicksilver? Quicksilver, Northstar, Aurora, etc., etc. Hell, the UPB even has an "in atmosphere" speed rate and a "in vacumn" speed rate. > Also i beleive most stick to the > atmosphere is becouse thats where they can breath. Yep. Just like breathing air helps one die less, so to does accelerating to lightspeed in a vacumn. > It just seems you want to take a game made fun by > being simple and clog it up with a lot of real > world problems. Hey but to each there own I guess > until I play one of your games I should not judge > and just shut my mouth. That would probably be good advice. Also, it might be a good idea just to remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat, with the presumed superiority of any particular method most likely being a matter of custom and preference. And personally, while I like simplicity, I like a certain degree of plausiblity as well. Some might dig the Flash being able to run at super lightspeeds all over the Earth, others clearly don't. B!)- Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2006 05:07PM by Powersurge. |
