Alchemist type

watchin fullmetal alchemist had me wondering what charater type from Marvel RPG (original) would they be classified (altered, mutant, hitech, robot, alien). I have already dismissed mutant, robot(except for alphonso), and alien. so im trying to figure out if alchemist are considered altered's because they use a science that is almost like magic...or high tech because they must have materials on hand to make their specific powers to work( edward and his limbs, mustang and his gloves, etc) plus they have to have those transmutation circles. I'm leaning towards high tech but I wanted your opinions.

Good question.

The brother who is a soul encased in an arcane suit of armor is a combination of a helmed horror and an iron golem or gear golem.

The other brother should be considered a Cyborg---Artificial limbs/organs.

His school of magic should be considered Alchemy

His cyborg components and his brother's mechanical body were made using the magics of Artifice (scientifc magic). Dr. Doom is a master of this school. In the Forgotten Realms, Gond the Wonder Bringer is the founder of the school.

Just a note, Edward Elric only has an artifical arm and leg, no artifical organs. =)

And Alphonse is more like a full-conversion cyborg than a Helmed Horror or Iron/Gear Golem, since those are powered/driven by bound undead spirits or bound elemental spirits, respectively.

It's never directly stated how automail (ex.: Edward's prosthetic right arm and left leg) is powered or works [i.e., how it's connected to the nerves of the body since the overall tech level seems to be around that of late Victorian England], but it is known that the technology grew from the science/art of alchemy, and so is likely some magic/tech hybrid (like Doctor Doom's armor).

Mustang's gloves are, IIRC, a purely high-tech thing, woven of a special cloth [or maybe coated in a special powder] that creates a spark when he snaps his fingers, which he then enhanced with his Alchemist powers (similar to how Pyro uses a flamethrower/bic lighter to generate a small amount of flame that he can then use his Mutant powers on to enhance and alter). 'Course, the cloth [or powder] may've been made via Alchemy, so....

Most Alcehmy in the show is like the Scientific Magic school (described in Realm of Magic) used by Diablo and Dr. Doom, though most transmutations are done much faster than the time indicated in RoM. One obvious exception is the techniques used by Shou Tucker to create his chimeras. Other exceptions would be Scar's use of alchemy, or rather his incomplet use -- Alchemy consists of understanding the composition of something, breaking it down, and then rebuilding it, but Scar just stops at step 2, and so effectively just has variou sorts of energy blasts, and Alex Armstrong's "Strong Arm Alchemy," which seems to mostly consist of enhanced strength and various 'Brick Tricks' (shockwaves and such). Basically, the Matter Control, Conversion, and Creation powers are the most commonly-seen uses of Alchemy in the show, but Alchemy can be used for pretty much anything if you can think up a good enough expanation [just like any magic or mutant power ;) ].

> but Alchemy can be used for pretty much anything if you can think up a good enough expanation [just like any magic or mutant power winking smiley ].

Yikes, it's bad enough having one Molecule Man/Scarlet Witch around, and now you have a whole military of them. =)

Eh, they only get to Molecule Man-levels of power if they have a Philosopher's Stone. ;)

I knew that. I was referring to the body type in the UPB called Cyborg---Artificial limbs/organs (meaning limbs and/or organs).

At first I thought so too, Doc. Then I read a couple of issues of TSR's DC comics venture of Forgotten Realms. There was a female dwarf whose spirit animated the form of an iron golem (at least I think it was an iron golem). I used that kind of template for my description of Alphonse.

Granted, but the powers of the characters on Full Metal Alchemist aren't "traditional" alchemy. They very rarely make potions or pills like Diablo. Nor is it atypical of Scientific Magic like Dr. Doom, they rarely make techno-magical devices either.

In FMA alchemical formulas tend to be mathemathic formulas more often then actual chemical concoctions.

I would seriously consider FMA alchemy as:

Power Simulation: Molecular Conversion (Mechanism: Gesture: Drawing and Activating the Cirlce). With power rank equal to either Reason (plus related talents) or Psyche (depending on the alchemist) and spell stunts used for Molding, Dimunization, Growth, Disruption, etc.

Lots of characters on the show have ways around the time constraints of the typical Gesture mechanism. Mustang for example uses the Talisman mechanism in place of the gesture mechanism for his combusion effects. Others do the same thing with trinkets. Scar has a permanent enchanted tattoo on his arm... this might be treated as a special type of magical device too.

Full Metal and Teacher on the other hand have whole different bag of tricks. Having seen the other side of the gate and given a piece of themselves to it... they actually have Molecular Conversion as magical power rather then a spell. They still have the limitation of having to have both of their hands free, but they don't have to scribe elaborate circles to work their stuff... it comes from within. I'd say their rank is Incredible. Which is why for more potent effects (like creating a philosopher's stone) they still need elaborate circles and preparations to succeed.

Note that most alchemists tend to be one-trick ponies. They have a specific element, attack, or effect that they use over-and-over again (all be it creatively)... an most of them have talismans or "speed mechanisms" for their one-trick effects. However, almost all alchemists have the basic stunts as part of their basic training... like most have a power stunt for Molding: Mend Object. Novice alchemist apparently have the hardest time with permanent effects. Edward and Alphonse for example had potent alchemy as untrained boys, but it had duration of well... not so much. Other examples of novice alchemists are shown temporarily raising animals from the dead and using mostly instaneous alchemy effects.

Most alchemists also have the limitation Inorganic Matter Only, as a psychological limitation... they just don't do that nor study much on how to do it. Even Edward admitted when confronted with Wrath that he wouldn't know how to meld flesh with an inorganic object without killing someone. Only mentally unstable or evil alchemists (like Tucker and Crimson Blood) dabble in it, the former more than the latter. Tucker can apparently use his Ritual mechanism alchemy to stunt Grafting, Body Transformation-Others, Power Creation, and many other things too. In FMA... Ritual alchemy (alchemy with at least two mechanisms) is strongest and can do the stuff other alchemy can't.

Red Water, Pseudo-Philosopher Stones, and supposedly the true stone bend the "ritual" rule in a deceptive sense. Using a philosopher stone (or a stand-in) is using alchemy in powerful Ritual (Talisman/Necromancy (as the red water/stones contain life force energy)). Ridiculous, nigh impossible effects (like those in advanced rituals) can be done instantly with these objects.

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In any event, for your average "State Alchemist"... I'd say (with room for fudging of course)...

Fighting: Ex
Agility: Ex
Strength: Ty
Endurance: Gd
Reason: Ex
Intuition: Gd
Psyche: Ex

Health: 56
Karma: 50

Reasources: Ex
Popularity: Shift-0 (Gd - Military Only)

Powers:
Power Simulation: Molecular Conversion (Mechanism: Gesture-Circle): Rm
*Molding-Mend Object: Ex
*Molding-Barrier: Rm
*Molding-Attack: Ex
Power Simulation: *Choose a Matter Conversion effect* (Mechanism: Talisman - Tattoo, Medallion, Gloves, etc.): Ex
*Pick one power stunt of chosen effect
*Pick one power stunt of chosen effect

Talents:
Two Fighting/Weapon Talents, Military, Chemistry, Philosophy (Alchemist's Code), Occult Lore (or any one of the more specific Tomes of Magic talents), Detective/Espionage (or Engineering if a research alchemist or Leadership if high ranking political type alchemist).

Contacts:
One or More Military, possible one or two others depending on alchemist.

Of course this for your average "State Alchemist", more exception and less exceptional ones do probably exist.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2005 10:16PM by sway.

Quote

At first I thought so too, Doc. Then I read a couple of issues of TSR's DC comics venture of Forgotten Realms. There was a female dwarf whose spirit animated the form of an iron golem (at least I think it was an iron golem). I used that kind of template for my description of Alphonse.

Meh. One of the FR Novels shows mages using a Polymorph Self spell to make him immune to Illitid feeding, by switching the position of his brain and bowels (so when the Illithid went to chow down on his head, it got a mouth full of bowel, allowing the mage to escape the nauseated Illithid). By the rules and all other official/canonical mentions of the spell, this cannot be done, since Polymorph Self can't do partial changes (such as rearranging internal organs to make someone immune to critical hits), only full/complete changes.
The novels don't have to follow all the rules of the game (especially given that the D&D game itself is based in part on several different books by several different authors, each of which has it's own internal rules and laws), just like the Marvel comics don't always follow all the rules of the MSH RPG.


Fullmetal actually does use circles, after a fashion -- when he claps his hands together, he's making himself into an Alchemical Circle. He has also used more traditional engraved/enscribed Circles, though has also shown a knack for creating his own Circles "on the fly" (Kit-Bashing, if you will).

Sway, i gotta agree with you on this.

I did a little research, trying 2 find a match for FMA. In AD&D 2nd edition's Players Option books, it talks about a mage kit called the Geometer.

The Geometer uses geometric shapes, runes, and mathematical formulas to harness the mystical energies needed to power certain effects.

The Geometer, if he/she knows the proper formula, can empower magical constructs.

He can even bond the noncorporeal form of spirits into a specially prepared vessel. (Alphonse or a homonculus)

Meh. One of the FR Novels shows mages using a Polymorph Self spell to make him immune to Illitid feeding, by switching the position of his brain and bowels (so when the Illithid went to chow down on his head, it got a mouth full of bowel, allowing the mage to escape the nauseated Illithid). By the rules and all other official/canonical mentions of the spell, this cannot be done, since Polymorph Self can't do partial changes (such as rearranging internal organs to make someone immune to critical hits), only full/complete changes.
The novels don't have to follow all the rules of the game (especially given that the D&D game itself is based in part on several different books by several different authors, each of which has it's own internal rules and laws), just like the Marvel comics don't always follow all the rules of the MSH RPG.

answer: It was the Harpells. I have the novel in question. Its called Siege of Darkness. The Harpells were experts at creating power-stunt like spell effects.


Fullmetal actually does use circles, after a fashion -- when he claps his hands together, he's making himself into an Alchemical Circle. He has also used more traditional engraved/enscribed Circles, though has also shown a knack for creating his own Circles "on the fly" (Kit-Bashing, if you will).

answer: Another thing I noiticed in FMA is that they seem to focus more on the Conjuration aspects of magic when they use their circles.

One of the FR Novels shows mages using a Polymorph Self spell to make him immune to Illitid feeding, by switching the position of his brain and bowels (so when the Illithid went to chow down on his head, it got a mouth full of bowel, allowing the mage to escape the nauseated Illithid).

Man, talk about someone thinking out of their as s... the writer of that idiot idea that is. If it weren't so ludicrous that I'd simply tell the Player he'd lost his mind, I'd have him break wind while in that configuration and blow a few IQ points right out his backside. Now I know why I have instinctively avoided most of the FR novels.


Isshia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2005 03:03AM by Gerrod_2002.

thanks guys, you really help a lot!