FF4... mixed impressions. *Spoilers*

I liked the movie... which is normally good... except I wanted to love it... and I didn't.


Didn't Like:

Biggest Gripe... Doom. I like the guy that plays Doom and he's a decent actor... so I'm tossing the problem here to characterization and script. The guy in this film was not Doom... not remotely... heck... he wasn't even a Luthor. From all displays he's the Thing's equal... not Reed's and thats wrong on so many levels. Sure he had awesome-ish power... but the heart of Doom is his intellect... he's ability to plan for all contigencies... his... well I'm sure you get the point... and that point is... he just didn't cut it.

Sue's inability to make other things invisible... like clothing. While I guess you could say this was to add to the "learning their way" factor of the movie. In my opinion it was just for the humor of having Sue Storm run around naked a couple of times (and of course to let us see Ms. Alba in her undies... not that I'm complaining).

Camera work... what the heck... I mean... at times it was great... but at others... it was like watching an indy film... and with a blockbuster budget... thats not cool.

Like:

Johnny... I loved him straight through the movie. I thought he was a great interpretation of early hot-headed Torch. They could have mellowed out on the sight gags a bit... but they were all amusing at least.

The fights... while sparce they were enjoyable. However, I wouldn't put them on par with Spider-man 2's battle scenes.

The laughs... the film was light-hearted... and enjoyable for that aspect. but perhaps it was too light-hearted given that the characters are supposed to be the cream of the super-hero crop in terms of Marvel. The F4 is Marvels first family... humor is great... but it shouldn't be all about the laughs.


---------------------------------------------------------------

Thoughts -

I give this flick some forgiveness because of the innate difficulties it faced. The gaining, discovering, and learning of powers is the slow and sometimes tiring build of any super-flick... the FF has it even worse than most because it has establish four different heroes gaining, discovering, and adapting to their powers... and it does suffer in this area. Likewise, the battles suffer because one would imagine the cost of fx five seperate supers is tremendous.

I feel this movie was much more in line with how the first Batman series of movies did super-flicks and not like the other Marvel movies out there... and in my opinion that is a horrible choice of direction. If Marvel makes more flicks with this kind of cartoonish appeal and DC makes more flicks in the vein of Batman Begins... I foresee a rapid changing of the box office comic hero guard. Given the rumors about X-Men 3... if its done in such a kemp fashion and Superman Lives is done in the same fashion as Batman Begins... Spiderman 3 may suffer the price. But on the plus side... maybe we'll finally get to see a Green Lantern flick.

The movie of course will most likely get a chance to redeem its flaws in a sequel but already has innate issues working against it. The cost with still be ridiculous and thematically... they've FUBAR'd themselves with Thing. Ben is just suddenly "cool" with being the Thing at the end?! Its one thing to make him mellow down about needing to be human asap... but with functioning way to be human again available... he simply choices to be Thing permanently? The tragic hero nature of his character is essentially shattered... and fixing that without just saying "oh, he didn't mean it" in a second movie just won't be easy.

I really liked Chiklis as Thing, and that they kept the Johnny/Ben rivalry. I do agree Doom could've been more ominous, but he could've been worse.

really don't think Ben's "cool" with being Thing -- he changed back b/c he had to, b/c he knew he was needed to stop Doom. I saw his change near the end as a mellowing out, due both to Alicia and (more likely than not) that the public is more accepting of him (since he helped stop a rampaging Doom).

The F4 was never meant to be the "cream of the crop," though -- that's what the Avengers are. The F4 has never been primarily about being superheroes, they've always been primarily about family & exploring/investigation. They are, as you said, a family first & foremost.

All in all, I liked the flick.

I mostly agree... I did like Thing and the interaction between him and Johnny was great.

As I noted, I also actually quasi-liked Doom... I like the guy who plays him... and personally I think he played the part well... it just wasn't the part of Doctor Doom though.

Fair note on Thing at the end... maybe I was taking it literally... but Thing telling Reed to not worry about changing him back still kinda threw me.

I think you misunderstand what I meant by "cream of the crop"... they're... they're sort of Marvel's Earth-based galactic team and very much a linch pin in the grand scheme of the Marvel universe. A good majority of Marvel events seem to either revolve around them or gravitate to them... and those that don't do so directly... at least do so tangently. In many ways they continually end up in the role as the emissaries of Earth not only to aliens from the stars... but to being in other dimensions too. Everyone, everywhere seems to know the F4... and not just as a super-team... as individuals too. Entities, mystical forces, super-villians, other heroes, the media, alien cultures... they all know the heroes... usually by first name. The Shi'ar are familiar with Charles Xavier and the X-Men... their leaders would know who you were talking about if you mentioned Jean Grey or Professor X to them... however... go to the Kree, Skrulls, Baddoon, Shi'ar, Galactus, the Eternals, the Greek Pantheon, the Norse Pantheon, etc... almost anyone... and mention Reed Richards, Sue Richards, Johnny Storm, or Ben Grimm... and they'll probably know exactly who you're referring to. Mention Tony Stark or Bruce Banner or Peter Parker... maybe some of them... if you said Ironman, the Hulk, and Spiderman... and even then... not all. Other heroes may have the eye of the world upon them... but the very gaze of the Marvel Universe entire falls upon the F4. In many ways earths heroes are measured by their standard... dubious as that standard may be at times.

Anyway... I did like the flick too... I just didn't love it... I really wanted to come out loving it.

Ahhh, I see. Gotcha, sorry, I did indeed misunderstand.

Entirely my fault... it was an extremely ill chosen phrase.

I have developed the ability to not expect a movie based upon established comic book heroes to be an entirely accurate representation of what has been read over 20 to 40 year period. The bottom line is this : Does the story, the acting, and the directing carry the ball across the goalline for the winning touchdown?

In my opinion this movie delivers.

I saw it today with my wife and we both loved it. My next door neighbor saw it opening day and loved it. I got was home this afternoon and watch a couple of critics on MSNBC review the film. They both agreed that overall, the film was poor.
Their adjectives included "cheesy" and "second-rate".

One of the two critics was introduced as also being a comic book collector and he stated that the movie missed the mark on what the FF is all about. He commented that The Incredibles was a far superior film, with a better story and better dialogue.
The other critic agreed that the dialogue was weak. The comic book collecting movie critic cited the line that Von Doom has where he says "This is going to be fun" when he is taking on all four heroes. Evidently this quip from Von Doom satisfied neither the comic book collector side of him or his movie critic side.


He said the actor playing Thing was pretty good, but that Alba was a total mis-cast for Sue.
He did say that he thought Alba was one of the most gorgeous women in film. I guess he threw that in there in case she was watching and he did not want to totally blow any chance he may ever have of bedding her.


Had I listened to their review prior to my actually going to see the movie, they most likely may have influenced me to wait until it came out on Pay Per View or DVD Rental 6 months from now.


Screw them. I had a great time and would like to see it again on the big screen before I buy the DVD when it comes out.

Eh, I rarely listen to critics. After all, they said Star Wars was going to be a complete & utter flop back in '77....

Anyone who watches movies and comments on them is a critic. But i'm not here to defend film critics. Far from it. it's just there are so mant film critics that the secret to "using" them is finding one who has the film history experience and a similarity to your own tastes to listen to.
I believe 95% of people who want or dont want to see a film, wont let a critic affect there discion anyway.

I just saw ebert and roeper and i take back (partially) what i just said. They gave it thumbs down mostly based on unfair comparrisons w/ other super hero movies. and although one should judge a film on it's own merits w/out taking the original medium it sprang from to heart fully there ignorance of the FF comic caused much of there commentary to sound trite and simply incorrect. when ebert said the thing was a rip off of the hulk and swamp thing... well you get my drift. hero chronology dating aside there comments this time around did not help me in learning about the FF movie. I guess thats what this site is for.

Did learn that doc doom's origin is linked w/ the FF and the screenplay made him an altered human with real powers. Whats up with that???

Okay, I guess I should clarfiy -- I rarely pay attention to what Professional Critics (the guys who get paid to give movie reviews, the folks who have "Movie Critic" on their resumes) say.


It's called a re-write, Ajax. Possibly partially inspired by Ultimate Fantastic Four, the reboot/rvamp of F4 where the five were working at the Baxter Building (a government think-tank for genius teens) and tested Reed's transporter device (which transported matter via the Negative Zone) which altered them all (after Victor van Damme arrogantly changed certain programming pieces that he thought Reed had incoreectly entered). In that, Doom's skin turned into a super-strong metal, and he gained a potent healing factor (though he couldn't heal wounds inflicted by his own metal/skin), he could make spikes sprout from his forearm and fling them like a manticore, and he could exhale the poisonous remnants of his rotted internal organs. His legs were also changed into demonic goat-hooves. No energy blasts, but this one did have a bazooka as well.

Remember, Comic Book-inspired movies (and 'toons) are [in the vast majority of cases] no more accurate to the comics than any other flick based on a book (look at all the changes in the LotR flicks, for example, or the differences between Stephen King books and the movies that're based on them). They're basically What If.../Elseworld tales.

I think it all boils down to the fact that the movie was good, not only because of the reasons stated above, but mainly because we got to see an almost-naked Jessica Alba. Who disagrees?

She WILL be my bride someday....

I HAVE COME TO REAP THE SOULS OF THE LIVING!!!!!
And perhaps, order a burger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2005 07:21AM by Saint Xanatos.

Sometimes I hate being in Japan, I have to wait just to see it. I agree with you guys critics suck, I remember back in 86' they said Legend sucked. I thought it was awesome, I think the devils body suit back then rivals, body suit stuff their doing today, ie Hydes in LoxG, and Hellboy. come on Tim curry scrawny little self made into a 6'10 monster damn impressive. Oh well of the beaten track.

Should I go see it on the big screen of just wait til DVD? Opinions. Oh I heard a rumor they are gonna make an Avengers Movie? Is this true or rumor?

Well, for THAT i can just re-watch blade: trinity. Heh.

I liked it, and felt it captured the spirit of the characters, if not the continuity (the continuity was definitely screwed up). After all, FF is about family, and that s what they are. They fight, have issues, and end up coming together at the end. That's what they do.

Johnny and Ben were perfect, and the fighting was true to form. Reed's near obsession with science, Sue not being an airhead (I almost expected that from Hollywood) all together it was great... although DOom was fairly undoomlike.

Well, I finally saw it. My impressions were NOT mixed. I found almost nothing about it to like. Doom, the classiest villian in Marvel, becomes the ultimate pansy. Yuck! That was the worst of it for me, but none of it impressed me much at all.


Gerrod

You didn't even like Grimm?

I wrote that right after seeing it and being horribly disappointed in it. IMO, it was the worst of the modern Marvel adaptions (FF4, XMen1&2, Spidey1&2, Punisher, even the three Blade movies) I've seen.

BUT

Yeah, Grim was well done. Jonny was well protrayed. The interaction between them felt right. But yeeesh, did they screw the pooch on the other characterizations. And what was with turning Doom into a half @#$%& Lex Luthor love child with Collosus and Electro? Sure, when you bring an adaptation to the screen of any written material, there will be necessary changes, but good God, keep the characterizations atleast. Otherwise you're just stealing a popular name and nothing more.


Gerrod

I've recently crystalized my thoughts on "what went wrong" with the F4. Why was it so subpar? I mean alot of the elements of it that were lame are present in other super-flicks that turned out great. My ending summation was two-fold.

1. The writers/directors did not take it seriously. The vast majority of the movie light and goofballish... like your watching a bad seventies cartoon. You never get even the remotest sense of this universe feeling possible... let alone real. Thus the danger and tension falls flat. Even the Incredibles (a cartoon) took its subject matter more seriously.

2. The F4 aren't heroes in the film. Its a super-hero flick... without super-heroes. All of the characters are completely self-involved and self-interested... and only really stop problems they themselves cause. We have no reason to cheer for them. Their first big power display is "cleaning up" a mess the Thing inadvertantly starts himself. Next its just the Thing and the Torch fighting with each other. Then Doom jumps Reed after exploiting Thing's self-interest. Our next display is Johnny running from the rocket... granted to save his sister as much as himself. Then Sue tries to save her boyfriend... Thing show up to help. And it all ends with an impromptu short battle on the street... wrecking everything and its mother... that once over... the crowd cheers for (why?). Other than fixing their own messes and trying to help themselves... the characters (and I say characters... not heroes) do next to nothing the whole movie. They all come off as shallow and unworthy of praise... and the world they live in is those even more unrealistic as its portrayed as celebrating them.

Quote

They all come off as shallow and unworthy of praise... and the world they live in is those even more unrealistic as its portrayed as celebrating them.

Eh, seems realistic to me (Paris Hilton? Ashlee Simpson? Andy @#$%&)....

FOOM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have developed the ability to not expect a movie
> based upon established comic book heroes to be an
> entirely accurate representation of what has been
> read over 20 to 40 year period. The bottom line
> is this : Does the story, the acting, and the
> directing carry the ball across the goalline for
> the winning touchdown?
>
> In my opinion this movie delivers.
>
> I saw it today with my wife and we both loved it.
> My next door neighbor saw it opening day and loved
> it. I got was home this afternoon and watch a
> couple of critics on MSNBC review the film. They
> both agreed that overall, the film was poor.
> Their adjectives included "cheesy" and
> "second-rate".
>
> One of the two critics was introduced as also
> being a comic book collector and he stated that
> the movie missed the mark on what the FF is all
> about. He commented that The Incredibles was a far
> superior film, with a better story and better
> dialogue.
> The other critic agreed that the dialogue was
> weak. The comic book collecting movie critic cited
> the line that Von Doom has where he says "This is
> going to be fun" when he is taking on all four
> heroes. Evidently this quip from Von Doom
> satisfied neither the comic book collector side of
> him or his movie critic side.
>
>
> He said the actor playing Thing was pretty good,
> but that Alba was a total mis-cast for Sue.
> He did say that he thought Alba was one of the
> most gorgeous women in film. I guess he threw that
> in there in case she was watching and he did not
> want to totally blow any chance he may ever have
> of bedding her.
>
>
> Had I listened to their review prior to my
> actually going to see the movie, they most likely
> may have influenced me to wait until it came out
> on Pay Per View or DVD Rental 6 months from now.
>
>
> Screw them. I had a great time and would like to
> see it again on the big screen before I buy theI
> DVD when it comes out.
>


I still stand by this review. 'Nuff said.