Shields

Has anyone developed any rules regarding the use of a shield in combat? No one in my campaign uses Mr. Shield himself (Captain America), but when I used him in my campaign as an NPC of late, I realized that there are no rules that I'm aware of concerning the use of a shield for defense. So I kit-bashed the following rule on the spot:

A character can block any single attack with his shield on a successful Green Fighting FEAT. Blocking two attacks requires a Yellow FEAT, and blocking three attacks requires a Red FEAT. No more than three attacks can be blocked in a single turn. Blocking an attack counts as an action; thus, if Cap blocks three attacks, he cannot do anything else that turn. But game-testing of this rule has been extremely limited. Anyone out there with a game-ested rule for shield bearing characters? Or is there a rule that's always been out there, and I somehow missed it? Thanks.

I alaways just used the Block manuever, using the character's fighting and the material strength of the shield instead of just the character's strength. Sometimes the shield-wielder is ready, braced and their shield at just the right angle to receive the blow, resulting in that +1CS, but most times it is a struggle to get it into position, yourself braced, and the shield tilted at just the right angle, resulting in the more common -2 CS to -6 CS modifier to the material strength.

Its not perfect, espcially when you're dealing with CL3000 material, which, at the time, only covers so much area, ie. so, are Cap's legs incinerated?, but for the most part, and for comicbook purposes, its functional and inline with an unarmed Block.

Powersurge Wrote:
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> > I alaways just used the Block manuever, using
> the character's fighting and the material strength
> of the shield instead of just the character's
> strength. Sometimes the shield-wielder is ready,
> braced and their shield at just the right angle to
> receive the blow, resulting in that +1CS, but most
> times it is a struggle to get it into position,
> yourself braced, and the shield tilted at just the
> right angle, resulting in the more common -2 CS to
> -6 CS modifier to the material strength.
>
> Its not perfect, espcially when you're dealing
> with CL3000 material, which, at the time, only
> covers so much area, ie. so, are Cap's legs
> incinerated?, but for the most part, and for
> comicbook purposes, its functional and inline with
> an unarmed Block.


I've basically used the same approach for shield-wielders in games I've played as well as judged.

As far as Cap's shield, instead of the fact that it's Class 3000 material, we go with the fact that it can only block up to 90pts of damage, which puts it in the Unearthly range...doesn't seem quite as unbalancing then. This seems to work well enough for my tabletop character, who has a shield of Class 1000 Adamantium, but it also only blocks up to 90pts...

Hmm. Redman II brings up an interesting point. If Cap's Class 3000 material shield only absorbs 90 points of damage, how much can an adamantium shield (Class 1000 material) absorb? How much can a regular steel shield (Remarkable material) absorb?

Just because Joe Ordinary has blocked a blow from the Thing with an adamantium shield doesn't mean he's not going to feel the impact. The shield might hold up, but it's likely the impact will still shatter Joe Ordinary's arm. With the notable exception of Cap's shield, which is a unique adamantium/vibranium alloy, most shields do not absorb the forces of blows directed against them; they just block the blow.

BTW, I think Cap's shield should absorb far more than 90 points. The shield has withstood direct blows from Thor's hammer and an enraged Hulk without Cap feeling any impact. It has also withstood a flurry of blows from Gladiator of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard (at a time Gladiator's power was augmented to the point he lifted the entire Baxter Building) without Cap feeling any impact.

See also the SHIELDING topic. There could be a seperation between shielding protection points based on the material strength of the shield ( garbage can lid-4pts and a steel shield-30 points )and the amount of attacks that can be blocked based on the damage done in that round. Thor could hit Cap w/ 150 points and CAP shields it w/ his traditional cl-3000 material str. shield but since the damage was over Cap's 90 points it pulls his shield arm out of position to further shield THOR's other 2 attacks ( if he went for 3? )

If 3 thugs w/ steel pipes attack cap he could be considered w/ 90 points of shield to block them w/ relative ease - using the fighting feats for multiple shield blocks can still be used I just think that THOR's 3 great blows should be treated differently then lets say 3 blows from Taskmaster ( gd-10 str+ billy club ).

Epyon Wrote:
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>Or is there a rule that's always been
> out there, and I somehow missed it? Thanks.

I believe that Advance Marvel Super Heroes Player's Book, p. 31 ("Sheilding") covers this.

hold on here.

a Class 3000 sheild can block a Class 3000 attack.

Now the weakness is not in the sheild itself but in what is holding the sheild.

Cappys shield is a combination of Vibranium and adamantium. As a result this allows him to withstand and absorb the damage. But he must still endeavour to remain standing.

You throw a bolder the size of a car at him and he tries to use his shield.
Reality dictates that Cappy is going to either be crushed under the weight of his sheild with the car size bolder on top or he is going to be stuned or slammed.
The Sheild might absorb most of the damage but the result is that his sheild would be bashed onto him. Thus he could not escape the taking some damage. It is common sense

Let's not forget that in the proper use of a shield, one doesn't take blows head on. The shield should be receiving the blow at an angle, ideally, so as to minimize the impact.

So, between proper use and the specific alloys that Caps shield is made out of, he could turn aside a pretty hefty blow. I do believe however that he once suffered a broken arm from .... ???? .... a blow from an enraged Hulk I do believe. Or maybe it was a blow from Zeus?!?!? Damn memory ain't quite what it used to be.

<<<takes up cane and hobbles off>>>.

I believe it was from Zeus, and it wasn't just a physical blow, but some sort of magical attack. But I could be wrong on both counts. It should also be pointed out that shields are usually much more effective against energy attacks than against physical attacks. The Human Torch's nova blast at maximum power couldn't so much as singe a hair on Cap's body, whereas a blow from an enraged Hulk would at least send him flying.

The only thing that is missing from the Shielding section is the actual mechanic for how to shield someone. It says that you just do it. But for every other active defense a FEAT is required. Personally I would think that it would require a FEAT from the stat that is associated with the attack form. A Fighting FEAT to go against melee attacks and an Agility FEAT to go against ranged.

Thoughts?

when judging I used his fighting for combat FEATs, like blocking blows and I used his agility for shielding bullets and energey attacks, since he has to get the shield between himself and the shooter/projector.

Cap is a terrible NPC. You kinda have to have him be a super badass, within reason, because he is a franchise. (he says "Go do this" the Army says "OK")

MIC_Rulz Wrote:
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> The only thing that is missing from the Shielding
> section is the actual mechanic for how to shield
> someone. It says that you just do it. But for
> every other active defense a FEAT is required.
> Personally I would think that it would require a
> FEAT from the stat that is associated with the
> attack form. A Fighting FEAT to go against melee
> attacks and an Agility FEAT to go against ranged.
>
> Thoughts?

My thoughts are that it's pretty clear. It takes no FEAT roll to do this, but if you do it, you are -2 CS at any OTHER FEAT rolls during the same turn. It's also a free action if you declare it ahead of time, but if you decide to do it - at the last minute, you can do nothing else that turn.

I'm not seeing the problem, but that's just me. I can see how you'd think of it as a 'gimme' but since it's main usefulness is to protect civilians, I don't see that as a problem. Saving lives is hard enough as it is.

here here

The write up for Cap sets the standard for sheilds. If not used for bashing or throwing during the same panel then the sheild acts as armor v. the incoming attack (no good v. psychic or magic).
The only suggestion that I have is that if the character has a talent with the shield then the bonus can be used when evading as well as when attacking. That is, Cap is +2CS with his shield. Therefore when executing an Evade, his chance is Amazing +2CS (Unearthly).

Does anyone out there use the 90 point shielding rule w/ Captain America anymore? Or just a variation of the rule in the advanced set rules?

There must be some way to intergrate both somehow with maybe fighting feats for multiple direction shielding.

ok, I used to read Captain America a lot and the sheild only blocking 90 pts just doesn't cover the wide area of useful stuff he does with it:

Cap falls into a Malain Man Trap (a 20 foot deep pit full of 3 foot spikes) He whips the shield under his butt and lands upon it, zero damage, then pushes off and skates across the spikes to the wall, to climb out.

He is fighting an enraged Dragon Man (waaaaay stronger than Cap), blocks a blow that would have pulped him (zero damage) but does not have time to set his feet or ground himself and is grandslammed off one roof top towards another, whips the sheild behind his back and pulverises the chimeney he crashes into (zero damage, but takes a round digging out from collapsed bricks).

Fighting some members of the Serpent Society on a roof top. Stuns two with expertly placed shield blows, a third tosses a concussion grenade, which he shields himself from (zero damage but the shock rings his bell momentarily and Cap is pushed off a nine story building). Falling towards the sidewalk, twists the shield between the ground and his body (absorbs most of the fall, cap rolls against a stun and takes damage equal to if he had struck himself with his own shield, since he has just executed an ungrounded diving attack against the sidewalk). Boy, those Serpents are going to be sorry when Cap catches up to them.

the 90 point thing give to much credit to the badguys, that shield in particlular absorbs phsycal impact and is almost unbreakable, plus the guy using it has had several life times to learn how to use it correctly. In a fight with some unbelievably strong bad guy, Cap wins not because he dishes out so much damage but because he can take mountains of it without getting hurt and wears his opponent down, -10 points a round makes that less possible.

cappy would definately lose against hulk. the hulk would just get madder and stronger.