How can this be.....

How can Gambit beat both Wolverine and Sabertooth. Stat wise alone , they would kick his gumbo-loving butt. Why...I must say how is it possiable. My theory is maybe Gambit has the power of Probabilty Manpulation, like Domino and Longshot. That is the only way to explain it....

What do you guys think?

It's a story telling flaw called "script writer's convenience".

Read the Punisher where Wolvie shows up, if you can keep your lunch down during it for an awful example of *writer's perrogative*. Writers, they don't use stats they just want to make their characters look good. And sometimes need to be beaten to death with a large roll of said writing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2005 05:03AM by Tormain.

I definitely think writer's fiat is at work anytime Punisher beats up ANYONE. Gambit too.

That, and I think that Gambit's stats for MSH were hastily thrown together and not really reflective of his character in comics.

I'm not a Gambit fan by any stretch of the imagination, but if he were an X-Man, running alongside the likes of Rogue, Wolvie, Storm, and the like, there'd be no way he could simply keep up. He's simply far too B-List. It stands to reason that the X-Men are roughly equal in terms of power levels.

I don't really care, because I don't really include Gambit in any game I run. But some of you fanboys might want to think about revisiting him. Even I think he's more powerful than the current write-up.

There are three major factors in MSH that can emulate the condtions in which a Gambit can defeat a Sabretooth or Wolverine.


1)The dice:
I've seen players roll from the high 80's to 100 on as many as five turns in succession when I as the Game Judge couldn't get a score above 25 and rolled 01 twice consecutevly for two of my villians to save v. a stun result. Both villains had Monstrous Endurance ranks but were stunned for 5 and 6 turns respectively.

2)Loaded with Karma vs. Out of Karma:
If a character like Gambit has been played long enough by a player, then it is possible that he could a enter combat with a couple of hundred Karma points ready for use. Conversely, a Sabretooth character might have none.

Depending upon what rules the Game Judge is using, a character can spend up to 40 points of Karma to lower an attacker's color result by one level. Green results become White. If Sabretooth rolls Yellow or Higher, then Gambit spends Karma to insure that his Endurance Feat avoids the stun or kill.

3) Tactics (with or without Karma):
Gambit does not have an edged weapon during slugfest, but depending upon which rules the GJ is using, the Rajin' Cajun' can attempt to toss an energy explosion at his foe during a slugfest by taking a -3CS to his Agility Feat.

Energy attacks can yield Kill results. Have Gambit declare a Red Feat and if necessary spend karma to insure success. If Sabretooth fails the End Feat to save, then after 'tooth's Health automatically drops to zero and he hits the ground, Gambit can prevent his death with as per the rules to prevent dying. . .if the Healing Factor doesn't kick in first.

This way, Gambit cannot be penalized Karma loss for purposefully declaring and achieving a Kill result. It was intended to assure a Knockout. . .not attempted murder.

As in the comics, it is both luck and skill that characters use in order to overcome the odds.
Bad writing or award-winning writing is irrelevant: Whatever has happened, is happening , or will happen in Marvel Comics can be brought to life on your table top with the MSH RPG.

What is considered the latest 'official' MSH write-up?

Michael

Not to mention: Gambit's Remarkable Fighting plus Weapon Specialist with staff (not official) is equal to Wolverine's Incredible (official) Fighting plus Martial Arts B.

Gambit's fighting style also includes a lot of Evading and then throwing explosive cards at his opponents. That's certainly what he was doing in that famous Danger Room session.

It would be interesting to try to work out an exact order for the X-Men in terms of unarmed combat skill. In terms of general fighting skills, Marvel currently rate the top five as being Wolverine, Shadowcat, and then Cyclops, Bishop and Rogue, all equal third, but they don't have Psylocke on their list (since she's supposed to be slightly better than Elektra, that would put her in between Wolverine and Shadowcat). Gambit doesn't even rate - he gets by on evasion and constructive use of his powers rather than combat skill. Remember, he has very little serious training.

In an unarmed, no-powers, brawl, Gambit probably wouldn't be all that impressive.

-Wal

You all have great points. The writers suck...well some writers suck. But Foom has a point. It all about the game..I know a few times when I have been gaming, weird things just happen like one of my PC was playing Puck(Alpha Fight) and somehow managed to knock the Hulk out..THE HULK..Your thinking no way..but it happened..Heck if Kazar can @#$%&-slap Thanos. Why can't Puck get alittle luck with the Hulk.

"All writters that break bananna law must face the MONKEY."

And perhaps one day it will happen in the comics, too. Hmm. Maybe what I should have written was ". . . whatever has happened, is happening, or will happen on a table top while playing the MSH RPG will eventually be read about in the issues of Marvel Comics."

Stories write themselves when roleplaying MSH.
All the Game Judge does is provide the rough draft and the setting.

Probability is represented on the on the Universal Table. At first glance it is a simple table where each column is 5 percentiles better than the previous column. But this is a deceptive over simplification. The excitement and heat of the game are found buried deeper in the Yellow and Red sections of the U.T. where probabilities drop off sharply.

The dice do not always behave as expected. True, if one needs to roll an 11 or better on d100, the odds are extremely high that the one rolling the dice will succeed. But , I can testify to the time during a campaign that the player running Thor could not hit the broad side of a barn. . . unless he used karma, but he eventually used it all up.
Turn after turn he would need either a 26 or better when throwing Mjolnir or a 07 or better when slugfesting. Regardless of these Amazing (and Shift-Y) odds he connected with only three out of every ten attacks when karma couldn't save the roll.

In an issue of The Mighty Avengers that situation might be considered to be "bad writing". In the House Of FOOM it was hilarious and tremendously entertaining.

Karma gives the players, (and to some extent the GJ) control of the dice and the Universal Table. If a dodging superspeedster foe has dropped Hawkeye's chance to hit him with an Electrified-Adamantium Stun arrow from a Green Monstrous to a Yellow Typical, that's a significant drop in probability. Clint's chance of hitting the defender has been perfectly flip-flopped an 80 percent chance of success to a 20 percent chance.

But wait. . . his team set up a Karma pool prior to the adventure and there are exactly 59 points remaining. Hawkeye is back to needing a 21 or higher in order to hit his target. He may still miss, but he is back in control.
Suppose there were still 80 or more points in that pool. . .it's just a question of how much karma gets burned to bring the dice score to an 81.

I cannot really put my finger on what the point of all this is. I just know that the elements that make up this game system are what makes it so much fun to participate in.

I'm not a Gambit fan by any stretch of the imagination, but if he were an X-Man, running alongside the likes of Rogue, Wolvie, Storm, and the like, there'd be no way he could simply keep up. He's simply far too B-List. It stands to reason that the X-Men are roughly equal in terms of power levels.

I see your point but let us not forget Jubilee and Shadowcat and some of the other very B level heroes that have run alongside the likes of Wolvie and Rogue and the others.

DG X(

Marvel > DC