Best hand to hand combatant, sans superpowers

Let us not forget Spider Man either. While he started as a nerd, even depowered he is now buff (he exercises hours and hours each day) and is a crafty and intelligent fighter. He has as much Experience as most of the above as well now too... and has far more brains, which are not a super power, but his natural ability.

Although I understand Wallace's point on Cap's 20 years only worth of training it's the quality of training and his access to superior training techniques plus this is all he has really done w/ his life- train to be a proffesional superhero. Being part of the avengers and sparring year in and year out w/ a wide variety of opponents qualifies him ( in my book ) as extremly experienced and trained. even shang-chi has not done as much in testing his skills to the fullest vs. powered opponents like Cap( see avengers membership for examples like she-hulk who was made to look bad vs. Cap ) Shang-chi even retired for some time to become a fisherman!?!

Side note: IF this was some sort of martial arts tournement on some mystical island that took away ones super powers like super str up to RM-30 and body armor ( except kingpin's dense sumo flesh)plus all the obvious powers like energy attacks etc. and there were 64 combatants with about 5 fights to get to the final------ could not the Taskmaster study his opponents during there fights and also include the many people he has already studied to get a big edge in the fighting- in the game or this comic ( limited series? ) Taskmaster would be the odds on favorite.

and yet KARNAK is one bad moon man. He could out martial art even the Taskmaster if he'd make the long trip.

I know recent continuity has butchered her, but isn't Mantis a badass kung fu chick too? I mean, she used to use all sorts of weird stereotypical 'ancient Oriental secrets' back in the day with the Avengers.

I believe X-Women Rogue and Sage and possibly even Storm could be put in that list.

In the last few months of X-treme Xmen, Rogue was depowered and used only thefighting skills she gained from her years of training in the Xmen to kick butts... and even against half a dozen mutants, she won.

With her Total Memory, Sage can remember every book and movie she has ever read/watched about fighting and reuse these skills to kick butt... and even without the power, it was said that she was a very talented hand-to-hand combattant.

Storm, although less powerful physically, did train with Gambit and the XMen for years, and she did kick Gambit's gumbo-lovin' @#$%& in X-Treme Xmen... that impressed the world government enough to make her leader of the XSE.

Storm's an odd one - it really depends on who is writing her. I mean, Claremont tends to make her into an unstoppable badass. Everyone else usually tones it down, at least a little.

Personally, I would say that Rogue and Cyclops are both better than her hand-to-hand, and Gambit probably would be too if Claremont wasn't writing, but none of them come close to the level of characters like Silver Sable, Iron Fist and Psylocke.

-Wal

are you telling me the black widow is 75 yrs old? can,t wait to hear with what bullshi? this can be explained

Infinity formula. Seriously, same as Nick Fury.

Basically, she was shown as a child being kidnapped by the Hand back during WWII. Wolverine and Captain America teamed up to rescue her.

Fifty years later, according to the captioning (it said something like '1943' and then '1993'), it was the Black Widow we all know so well. This time teaming up with Wolverine, Jubilee and Psylocke.

-Wal

in game terms i'd want to run the Taskmaster. Some opponents having -2CS to there fighting and a very health dose of health for the TM ( 150 ? ) makes him a favorite.

In the comics it could be anyones game. Captain America probably.

Hey I take it no one reads the new Black Panther then?

I say Black Panther (So long as Cap don't have his shield ).

Ok what about environmental factors (night, lava pits, roof tops etc 4 way battle royal)

Hmm...no mention of Deadpool here?

I saw Batman mentioned, does that mean Deathstoke can be?

Some guys I think would make the competion but not win

Wildcat
Black Canary
Puck
Sabertooth
Kingpin


I'm a huge Cap fan and Black Pather is nasty, but if this is sans powers wouldn't the two of them be reduced to their original state? (Cap 98lbs) etc

Mr.T :D

I couldn't read everybody but how about Conan, he was a regular human...who killed about 50,000 people with a sword and his hands.

Fair point. Didn't he beat Captain America once?

Don't be fooled by Schwarzenegger. In the books, Conan's defining trait is his incredible speed. He's also hugely strong and tough, but most of all he's the fastest human being on his planet.

So, yeah. He's probably the overall best. He can take anyone.

-Wal

i think this is hard one to pick but ive read everybodys posts and i still have to go with shang chi. This topic says best hand to hand no superpowers and im assuming no weapons? combatant well conan is a weapons master, cap his sheild, iron fist is close but he sort of uses superpowers. id have to go with the guy ive seen defeat everyone who comes his way with only his body.

But who has the edge between Taskmaster and Shang-chi?

What if TM watched shang-chi a couple of times before there match- plus TM has a superior agility wouldn't you give a very tiny advantage to the Taskmaster?

If there are no powers... why would Taskmaster watching matter?

good point. if he is a mutant...no.


if he is not a mutant...yes.

What does him being a mutant or not effect anything? We're talking about taking away superpowers from all Marvel beings, not just mutants. Batman, Deathstroke and any other DC characters should not be on the list as Epy originally said "in the Marvel Universe" someone always goes off topic during these. I have to agree that although a badass still without his adamantium or regen that wolvie wouldn't cut it. He suffers from adamantium poisoning without his healing factor and he really suffers for it! I'll go ahead and add Champion if he isn't already in there. A little difficult to figure out his stats but the guy has had way more experience than Wolvie or Cap combined!

Something you would need to factor in is how long they're allowed to get used to not having powers.

I mean, Champion recently got into a boxing match with She-Hulk, and she cleaned his clock. This was mostly because just before the fight started, he was made to remove the Power Gem for the first time in ages. He was suddenly a lot weaker, and didn't know how to fight that way.

Without his powers, Wolverine is weaker, slower, feels pain more, gets tired faster, lacks his berserker rage, can't hear or smell as well... the list goes on. Give him a month to practice in, and he might be a contender, but if you just take away his powers and drop him in the ring, pretty much any serious martial artist would clean his clock. He'd be stumbling and flailing and wondering why his fists weren't connecting and since when could Cap/Natasha/DD hit that hard anyway?

This is why, two scenarios in three, Cyclops beats Wolverine.

-Wal

I kinda see your point, but in my opinion anyone that beats Champion pretty much wins because of bad writing.