Cosmic Entity Rankings

Posted by Nightmask 
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Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 07:22AM
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Trying to work out a general ranking on the various Marvel Cosmic Entities, got a rough list in mind but would like to get any contributions to help expand on it. Some I've in mind include:

1) The One Above All - The Living Tribunal's boss (not the one that leads the Celestials), basically God, and clearly in the Beyond rank in everything.

2) The Beyonders - Likely above the Living Tribunal but below The One Above All, creators of the dimension (and perhaps even the actual dimension) that supplies the infinite reality altering energies of the Cosmic Cubes. Unknown if they exist in multidimensional variations associated with each divergent universe or are a singular dimension that touches on every other reality.

3) The Beyonder - Secret Wars version, dismissing all the discontinuity provided by the editorial fiat to eliminate him.

4) Living Tribunal - Servant of The One Above All who works to maintain some kind of balance between all the various multiverses and within the universes, usually associated with mystical imbalances.

5) Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion - the top ranked exemplars of each individual Marvel Universe, embodying various cosmic concepts related to space and time (Eternity exemplifying infinite time, Infinity infinite space, Death the end of time and Oblivion the end of space).

6) The Celestials - Armored cosmic entities that engage in mysterious genetic experiments across each universe, often creating from the base stock a 'normal' race with the potential for benevolant mutation, a very genetically stable and long-lived 'eternal' version, and a genetically unstable 'deviant' branch but not always. NEVER deign to communicate with what they consider lesser beings, which is pretty much everything ranked below them in the cosmic scheme of things. At best might give psychic impressions of their intent or create holographic images to convey information.

7) Galactus - Sole survivor of the previous universe, possessor of the Power Cosmic and oldest being in the universe. Exists in the balance point between Death and Eternity and requires the life energies of living planets or extremely powerful beings in order to survive. Essential to the continued existance of reality.

Who comes next, or is absent off this list? I'd like to come up with as comprehensive a breakdown as possible.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2008 07:27AM by Nightmask.
Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 07:42AM
i would put Lord Order and Master Chaos before Galactus
Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 08:00AM
then after galactus

phoenix force

Mistress Love and Sire Hate

Watchers

Elder gods (cthon,set,Gaia, and Atum

Mephisto

gods like the Asgardians and Olympians
Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 08:15AM
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I really don't see them anywhere close to being more powerful or ranked higher than Galactus is; he lies as the centerpoint between Eternity and Death after all, and their centerpoint the In-Betweener is weaker (he only held his own against Galactus because Galactus was seriously weakened at the time). While they're non-physical cosmic entities that doesn't necessarily place them higher in rank than Galactus as the only physical cosmic entity in the cosmic order.

The ability to rank the lower ones does get more difficult though and one reason I wanted input from as many as possible. Several entities even get forgotten or ignored because we see them so rarely, like where would the Cosmic Axis or Demiurge fit into things? The Cosmic Axis helped to produce Eon I believe, and the Demiurge was what created all the original entities that existed on Earth before most became demons and were destroyed and what mated with Gaia to produce Atum.

I've left out trying to rank most of the demons and entities of magic since they mostly function at roughly the same level and well below the top ten. About the only ones that come close to reaching the top ten of the known mystical entities are Chthon and Set, original products of the Demiurge's influence on Earth's Biosphere (and perhaps one of the reasons why Galactus finds Earth so attractive as a meal). Gods like Odin and Zeus are clearly way below that level as we saw during the time of the Fourth Host of the Celestials.

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 08:56AM
it is very hard to rank exspecialy with all the recons Marvel has been doing, i know the Phoenix force has been described as being Galactus's opposite, and then the problem of ranking the evolved cosmic cubes like the Shaper. Maybe some day we will get lucky and Marvel expalin it all out.
Myself i always wondered what would happen if something like Set or Cthon tried to take on Galactus.
another think i always wondered is why the Gods have never came to earths aid when Galactus tried to feed on it, like they did agaisnt the 4th host. How would the Asgardian life force powered Destroyer that fought the Celestials do against Galactus
Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:14AM
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Don't forget Franklin Richards.

Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:27AM
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Well with the evolved Cosmic Cubes they seem to end up with a varying range of power depending on who has used them in up until the point of their evolution into independent life forms. Those with the most imaginative and creative users likely end up more powerful overall than those with lesser minds (much like how cripple the Shaper of Worlds is, lacking in creativity whereas Kubik is the opposite, filled with it and drive to learn and grow).

For a battle between Galactus and the Destroyer it depends on if Galactus is well-fed. If he's fully fed and able to operate at his peak he'd likely be able to melt the Destroyer down as easily as the Celestials did. Considering Galactus exceeds the power of beings like Atum (who's birth was such that both Set and Chthon fled to other dimensions certain that they'd be slain) I'd say he'd take out both Set and Chthon unless they were very crafty and didn't let their might fool them into a head-on attack (which of the two Set would be most likely to do).

I haven't seen the references to the Phoenix Force like that but it's been retconned to death and lost much of its individuality and uniqueness due to poor writing (including making it one of practically dozens of things anymore that exist across all the divergent realities).

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:27AM
isnt frankin powerless now
Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:33AM
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I don't tend to think of him as a cosmic entity, they keep jerking his power levels around so much and he's had them burned out 'permanently' so many times I can't count.

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:49AM
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For now. Just wait...

Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:49AM
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In the past, he's been said to have power exceeding the Celestials. I'd say that qualifies as cosmic entity...

Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 09:51AM
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Rachel Summers Phoenix made Galactus back down in an issue of Excalibur.

Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 10:01AM
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I'm not sure if she really made him back off or if he just felt at his energy levels at the time it wasn't worth the effort to smack her down.

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 10:13AM
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Well if that's the case then the Molecule Man needs to be inserted right below The Beyonder then since he exceeded everyone except The Beyonder.

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 10:29AM
i dont know if the have redone the origins again but didnt it turn out that the Molecule Man and the Beyonder where part of a cosmic cube...so if that was the case wouldnt they go with where ever Kubik and The Shaper of Worlds go in the rankings.
where does the power of a cosmic cube rank anyways, what cosmic entities could be beaten by somebody like Doom or the Red Skull weilding a single cosmic cube. I know it took 5 cosmic cubes wielded by magnus to match the powers of the infinity gauntlet. but what about 1 vs something of less power than Eternity or Death
Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 11:04AM
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I specifically reject that retcon, it damages almost as much continuity for the Marvel Universe as the recent Spider-man retcon (and forced for about the same reasons). It was also shown in the Infinity Crusade that Cosmic Cubes function at the Beyond level but self-limit save against a powerful enough will to override that, so there's still justification for The Beyonder even as a damaged cosmic cube being infinity powerful.

Well the Red Skull was for a while actually a part of a cosmic cube, the one that Adolph Hitler transferred his mind into way back in Marvel Super-villains Team-up I think it was, when he along with AIM were trying to make a new cube. After years of dormancy in Marvel time it started to activate. Thankfully he didn't learn to exploit it fully and was thwarted in his attempt to do what Korvac did and drain information from Galactus' worldship and become a god and lost the cube's power but with the cube one can easily dominate a world if not an entire galaxy with relative ease as was learned from the Shaper of Worlds. It's also a good thing that the Supreme Intelligence refused to make a cube for the Kree (that's what he was created for originally). The process of creating one though seems to require a living mind to do the impossible calculations (this is what drove MODOC mad and turned him into MODOK, as he was the organic computer that created the metasingularity grey hole that released the X-element for the cube).

I'm not sure what the upper limit is for who someone could safely challenge when with a cosmic cube, Thanos made him 'one with the universe' using the Earth's Cosmic Cube and was unbeatable until Captain Mar-Vell used the foolishly discarded cube to restore things to normalcy.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 12:50PM
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Thanos has a mental disorder that causes him to self sabotage himself when it comes to omnipotence, though... so you really can't call him foolish.

Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 01:14PM
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Not a mental disorder, just something many beings have, a fear of success. He sabotages himself because he feels unworthy of the power he seeks which doesn't rise to the level of a disorder and just a flaw like all of us have.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 02:55PM
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Still, I wouldn't call him foolish... you see what I'm saying?

Re: Cosmic Entity Rankings
February 21, 2008 04:55PM
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Can't get anything to load today so I'm going to wait until later to read the responses. So it is possible that Punstarr may have already put this up, but I'm going to drop it in here anyway.

[www.comicvine.com]

While I don't agree with all of it, it does provide us with a solid list to go off of.

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