Yahoo! Presents: Superman versus a Jedi Master

Posted by The Last Duskblade 
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Yahoo! Presents: Superman versus a Jedi Master
February 13, 2008 11:03PM
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I'm laughing out loud as I read this topic on Yahoo! The question has been asked so I thought I would give my friends here a shot at it.

My position is that there isn't a chance in Hell, Krypton, or Hoth that a Jedi could touch Superman. For so many reasons I wont bother stating them until others have a chance. There are a few points in the article that are at least attempts at merging the two characters conceptually in combat. Such as the idea of a Kryptonite Lightsaber.

Here is the link: [entertainment.howstuffworks.com]

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 11:13PM by The Last Duskblade.
Re: Yahoo! Presents: Superman versus a Jedi Master
February 14, 2008 02:11AM
Ouch looks like no contest!
Re: Yahoo! Presents: Superman versus a Jedi Master
February 14, 2008 11:10AM
I think Superman with his heat vision, super breath, and flight would win, but I would give a jedi master a chance if he could strike first. Much depends on what a lightsaber could do to superman.
Re: Yahoo! Presents: Superman versus a Jedi Master
February 14, 2008 05:30PM
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A lightsaber would do jack and nothing to Superman... he's the definition of Invulnerable. Makes him an uninteresting character, but he has more power than Yoda and Palpatine combined... this is no contest. The only chance would be via a Jedi Mind Trick.

The Fight!!!!
February 15, 2008 03:59PM
Ok I know this aint gonna make anybody happy but this is how I see it going down.


Lets assume a lightsaber enhanced by the force can cut/kill Superman Lets say that Jedi can do anything and every thing seen in all six movies and the annimated Clone Wars saga (approved by Lucas it can be considered cannon).

Superman powers:
super speed, strenght, senses = great willpower
invulnerabilty = flight = heat vision
hyper/cold breath

Jedi Grandmaster (Yoda/Windu level):
telkinesis (strong enough to move troop carrying ships, so at least 1000 tons)
sense life over interstellar distances
precognition = hyper reflexes = hyper agility
hyper leaping = hyper speed = empathy
lightsaber blocks energy = plant thoughts
the force = can do a lot with it that Im not even gonna write (like weakness detection and all kinds of useful crap)

(oh yeah consider this to take place in the open in a DBZ type fight terain with canyons, rock pillars, all that jazz)


Ok theres the ground rules. Superman and a jedi grandmaster are at an empass over something, both are willing to fight but reluctantly. The jedi tries the mind trick to avoid conflict only to find that Superman's combination of great willpower and Krytonain physiology make him immune.
Supes gently trie to restrain the jedi only to be blasted away into a rock pillar. Supes uses superspeed to make a strong rope from scrub brush and rapidly bind the jedi. The jedi uses the force to untie himself an attacks supes with kicks and punches,The force guides him to weak points and nerve clusters and allows him to penetrate Superman's invulnerabilty.

Superman is half paralyzed and totally surprised, he gets distaance by flying up up and away (heh). He fires back with arctic breath. The jedi easily dodges. Supes goes for hyper breath and as the jedi leaps to safety he changes it to a more widely dispered blast catching the jedi in the gale.The jedi hit the ground hard but uses the force and tumbling to minimize impact.

Superman uses superspeed to blaze in for a coup de grace, but the jedi's precognition and reflexes allow him to dodge. Superman goes for a focused beam of heat vision, out comes the lightsaber to reflect it back to him. Superman is hurt and surprised once again while the jedi rushes in with hyperspeed for a followup. Supes tries to dodge but the jedi predicts his movements with the force and stabs him in the arm rendering it useless. The force tells the jedi whats lethal to Superman and what will stop him.

Superman recoils and spins away at superspeed creating a dust devil to cover his retreat. Hurt twice and actually wounded once Superman decides he can get serious. He backs ofand start tossing large rock and as the jedi slashes them his hurls larger and larger ones forceing the jedi to leap away to safety or delect them with them force. Superman flies all over the place launching missles and heat rays from evey angle and hyper speed. With great effort and a calm mind the jedi keeps up. Superman ups the ante blasting away with hurled rocks from so many directions and at such speed that it seems the jedi will be killed, but the force guides him to a vary narrow route through all the missles. This was Superman's plan all along though! After throwing the last boulder he rockets around the planet to come up behind where he knows the jedi will have to be, thinking that circumnavigating the globe will allow him to escape detection. Nut Superman is not connected with the otherdimentional speed force merely and object in flight in the natural world. Supes find himself slamed by a force push the before he can reassert himself yanked toward his oppenent by a force pull. The jedi has decided he must stop this fight and is drawing Superman into lightsaber range to do severe damage.

Superman takes advantage of the situation, straining he swings his wounded arm forward with his good arm and his palms meet creating a devastating thunderclap/shockwave. The jedi is blasted away by the pressure wave and both ear drums rupture causing him to scream and clasp his hands to his ears, involuntarily dropping his lightsaber. in that split second Superman races forward at blinding speed and stops at the last microsecond to deliver a very pulled punch to the wounded jedi. The jedi falls unconscious to the ground and just to be safe Superman destroys his lightsaber with his heat vision.

Amazing he thinks, that a mere mortal could be so effective against me...I'd better not tell Batman about these guys, he'd be up here training with them in a millisecond!


Superman vs Sith Lord: Master of the Two

All former rules aply with the exception that the sith has the additional powers of force lightning and the force crush

The Sith Lord senses the approach of a great force of good flying through space to his planet to combat him and the dark side. The Sith Lord reaches out into the depth a space with the force and find his foe..yes this one have GREAT power! Aaaah but alas he cannot be turned. He applies force crush and Superman suddenly finds his very being attacked by an invisible force. While Superman can survive for extended periods in space on a single breathe he suddenly finds himself exposed to the cosmos as his space suit implodes and his lungs are focibly squeezed removing all of his air. Superman desperately tries to fly to the nearest planet but his ability to fly is reduced to a battle of wills. The Sith Lord proves stronger and Supermans struggles get weaker and weaker all the while he is being moved closer and closer to the gravity well of the nearest red sun. The Sith Lord had chosen his moment to strike well, and the force had supplied him with knowledge all of his enemy's weaknesses weeks ago...so many weaknesses, heh heh heh. Superman is guided into the nuclear fire of the red sun and across the galaxy a great loss is felt by those who follow the light side of the force.
Re: The Fight!!!!
February 15, 2008 05:38PM
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Meh. Superman is far more powerful than you give him credit for. Just like the Jedi aren't as powerful as you seem to think. Superman's speed exceeds what the Jedi can achieve by multitudes... and when you're as strong as Supes, having that kind of speed is a ridiculous advantage. The Jedi can't react to near Flash level speeds... so Yoda or Palpatine or whoever wouldn't even have time to register they're being attacked before they're hit and down.

You obviously put a lot of time and effort into that post, but I disagree with your stance.

Re: The Fight!!!!
February 15, 2008 08:37PM
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I have to agree that Superman would have more of an advantage than that. Even the current incarnation of Superman can move asteroids and small moons, something I don't believe any Force-Wielder can achive. After all if they could they wouldn't need something like the Death Star they'd just bare brain it. Pre-Crisis he could have easily wiped out any Force Wielder, good or evil. The only chance you'd have is to expose him to Kryptonite or Red Sun Radiation (and be better off with the Red Sun Radiation since Pre-cris it instantly stripped him of his powers, post-crisis it simply subjected him to energy depletion as he engaged in activity).

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Re: The Fight!!!!
February 16, 2008 12:02AM
Youre ignoring two facts of my story: 1.Superman would be holding back like crazy, heck he almost never ever goes all out even against super powered foes. 2. Its not just a question of speed and reflexes but the fact that jedi see the future all the time. Anikin was the only human able to pod race because, as Qui Gon puts it, "he can see things before they happen". So like Spiderman who isnt fast enough to catch bullets or even better energy beams which move at light speed he can avoid them because of his advanced warning due to his spider sence and super-human speed and reflexes.

Lastly how powerful are jedi? Keep in mind I used a jedi GRANDMASTER. Go watch the animated Clone Wars Saga on dvd, specifically any episodes with Mace Windu and Yoda in combat and I think you'll see where I was coming from with all this, and remember that this is considered cannonized material by Lucas. I think given Superman's attitude this story i fair. Now if a jedi grandmaster fought General Zod...goodbye, there wouldnt even be a first round to the fight.
Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 12:36AM
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Well, I suppose part of the argument could be centered around whether or not a lightsaber could even harm Superman.

The Jedi creation system on this site, states "A lightsabre provides an inherant damage capacity of Remarkable. If the lightsabre was constructed by the person wielding it the sabre's damage will increase to minimum of the wielders Psyche or Incredible, whichever is higher."

If that is the agreed upon situation then only a Jedi with a Psyche of Shift-X could even begin to hurt Superman. If you agree with the stats for Superman presented on this site. The ironic part of that is that there are several members who think the statistics for him on the site are too low. I'm not one to have an opinion because I don't follow him that well.

Either way, my question is what kind of damage does a lightsaber do? If it is a heat type of damage the there is not way to even touch Kal El. He has and Invulnerability to Heat. (and a number of other things) He also has an (as listed on this site) Unearthly resistance to Energy attacks. It says True Invulnerability, but it might mean Body Resistance. In any case it would have to be the mother of all Jedi in order to being thinking about attacking the Kryptonian. Even then, Superman has much more going for him then just his resistance to damage. I'm not convinced that 20 Jedi Master could take him. But I'm open to the idea.

Also I am assuming that no one is holding back here. Because the Jedi and Superman would likely be on the same side of the fight in any case. But for the sake of argument....

Just had a funny thought......Kal El training at the Jedi Academy.

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2008 12:38AM by The Last Duskblade.
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 12:50AM
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but in the same rules says the following:
a blade of superheated plasma contained within a force field. Despite this, the blade radiates no heat (although the blade itself is hot to touch); instead, it destroys matter on contact, and can cut through more or less anything solid. It cannot cut through other lightsaber blades, or most force fields.

In hand-to-hand combat, a lightsaber inflicts Remarkable Edged damage with each hit, regardless of the wielder's Strength.

However, this damage is done regardless of all body armour, resistances and invulnerabilities. At the Judge's discretion, a specific Resistance to Energy Attacks may reduce lightsaber damage; otherwise, the blade slices straight through armour plate and invulnerable flesh with equal ease.

The lightsaber will slice through material of up to Unearthly rank automatically. In the unlikely event of an opponent having body armour or invulnerability of Shift-X rank or above, the lightsaber will be stopped dead. However, it can still damage inanimate material of up to Shift-Z rank - it just takes a little longer (an entire round instead of an automatic action).


so, if you use these rules, the Jedi can damage Superman.

for my opinion, the lightsaber can be stopped by the standard Force Field or a Force Field vs. Energy


The Last Duskblade Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If that is the agreed upon situation then only a
> Jedi with a Psyche of Shift-X could even begin to
> hurt Superman. If you agree with the stats for
> Superman presented on this site.
>
> Either way, my question is what kind of damage
> does a lightsaber do? If it is a heat type of
> damage the there is not way to even touch Kal El.
> He has and Invulnerability to Heat. (and a number
> of other things) He also has an (as listed on
> this site) Unearthly resistance to Energy attacks.
> It says True Invulnerability, but it might mean
> Body Resistance.
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 01:02AM
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Daelon,

Definitely agree with all of that. My point is that we have to have some kind of standard to even make a decision with. That was the whole (oddball) point of my rant. Really just drawing attention to what you are pointing out. I've read the creation rule many times, and have made a couple of Jedi characters.

If a lightsaber is that powerful then everyone of my characters is going to get one.

Also I think that if Force Field vs. Energy with protect against lightsaber damage, so should Resistance to Energy. Unless someone can tell me a logical reason otherwise. Again I'm not a Jedi or Superman expert. So I'll need someone who is to clear it up for me.

Lastly there is the whole True Invulnerability thing to consider. If Superman is reducing all incoming energy attacks by 10CS.....ummm.....yeah. Something wrong there too.

What I am saying is that the way the lightsaber is written might be way unbalancing. Just a thought. We need more data on what the thing is and does.

In any case all of the other things Superman has going for him would make him an impossible enemy for a Jedi Master.

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 01:05AM
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The reason that the discussion breaks down to the lightsaber versus Superman's resistances is because the Jedi have nothing else that can even hope to touch him. I'd love to get as detailed as possible with these rules and stats because I'd love to be able to run a game in the Star Wars Universe, with Marvel characters.

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 04:32AM
Yeah but my whole little senario was never about game mechanics. It was purely my imagination based on observations. I whole agree that a lightsaber has no chance of actually hurting Superman but recall that for the sake of the fight I said

"Lets assume a lightsaber enhanced by the force can cut/kill Superman"

Key word here is assume. That was said to even make the fight possible. Now if you look at everything a jedi can do in either the films or the MSH game vs everytthing Superman can do in the comics or the MSH game and go purely by that then there isnt even a fight. Supes walks up and just grabs the saber by its blade and tosses it into space.

Case closed.
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 04:52AM
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Dude, calm down. I fully understood the context of your scenario. In no way was I attacking you. In fact I quite enjoyed your written conflict between the two parties in question.

My apologies, I should have conveyed that.

What I am looking (not the topic here, just me) is a greater understanding of the characters involved in terms of game mechanics. The argument with the rules set on this forum is that a lightsaber actually could hurt Superman. However, my opinion is that a lightsaber should not be able to hurt him unless the Psyche of the Jedi in question is very high. I'm not well versed in Jedi lore or DC characters. So beyond what I have stated here, and perhaps later stating more of the obvious, there is nothing more I can add. I'd be cool if somebody who knows about these things jumped in and cleared the air.

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 08:31AM
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Bracey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah but my whole little senario was never about
> game mechanics. It was purely my imagination based
> on observations. I whole agree that a lightsaber
> has no chance of actually hurting Superman but
> recall that for the sake of the fight I said
>
> "Lets assume a lightsaber enhanced by the force
> can cut/kill Superman"
>
> Key word here is assume. That was said to even
> make the fight possible. Now if you look at
> everything a jedi can do in either the films or
> the MSH game vs everytthing Superman can do in the
> comics or the MSH game and go purely by that then
> there isnt even a fight. Supes walks up and just
> grabs the saber by its blade and tosses it into
> space.
>
> Case closed.

But that's exactly my point... the fight isn't fair at all, even if a lightsaber could hurt Superman, because Superman is so unbelievably powerful that he's boring as hell. You stated before that Jedi can see the future to avoid incoming attacks. I believe it's like what Wizard magazine said about a fight between the Flash/Superman and Professor X. "Knowing the Flash or Superman are 1/1000th of a nanosecond from clocking you isn't going to do you much good. Say goodnight, Chuck". I didn't mean to offend, I just don't the fight is even remotely even.

Now for a more interesting fight, I'd like to see a Jedi Master vs a team of X-Men...

Say, Wolverine, Beast, Jean Grey, Bishop, Rogue, Gambit and Cyclops. Would they stand a chance?

Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 01:32PM
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Hmmm....

......and could Rogue absorb the knowledge of the Force and accompanying skills?

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 01:41PM
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could she absorp magical skills and spells ?

if she could, then she could absorp the Force i think.

is she couldn't, then the Force is out of her reach, too
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 01:57PM
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She could become Force Sensitive, but not wield the Force, since that takes a lifetime of training to know.

Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 05:08PM
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But she could absorb lightsaber fighting talent right?

Either way it is a good match up. WIth Jean Grey in the X-men line up, they stand a much better chance. Do you think he Telekinesis and Telepathy are stronger than what a Jedi can bring to the fight? Wolverine being able to heal from the lightsaber wounds in a good thing too.

The Last Duskblade
Q-Class Forever!!!
Re: Some of my thoughts
February 16, 2008 06:04PM
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Except that Rogue acquires the memories and skills not just raw power of an opponent when she drains them. Absorbing Man's the one who generally is screwed if he copies/absorbs something that requires training to wield effectively or safely.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

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