The Leifeld Game Thread

Aww heck, this deserves it's own thread.

I just blame Liefeld for the 90s trend of giving -huge- guns to characters who don't need guns... by huge I mean like the size of their body huge. Oh and those little detail lines... god those irritated the crap out of me. And the pouches! He was obsessed with pouches! How many pouches does a superhero need?



Here's a fun game of spot the bad art aspects.

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


#7


#8

That's some horrid art. It makes you realize how desperate they must've been. If he'd practice more with body proportions and less skeletal cheek bones he would've been amazing. I have a friend who draws exactly like that and I never planned on using him when I get my comic book going.





flam-ing.
-noun

1. Computer Slang. an angry, critical, or disparaging electronic message, as an e-mail or newsgroup post.
-verb (used without object)

2. Computer Slang. to send an angry, critical, or disparaging electronic message.
-verb (used with object)

3. Computer Slang. to insult or criticize angrily in an electronic message.
-Verb phrase

4. *Flaming, flamer* and *flamboyant* are potentially pejorative adjectives for a gay man or LGBT person whose behavior is reflected in a stereotypical flamboyancy, manner or style (see also gay culture and camp) but also refers to anyone seen as showy, outrageous, eccentric or unique stylistically




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2007 11:57AM by RAGNARoK.

I have to agree that that's some of the worst musculature around for some of those characters, particularly that one for Captain America. Admittedly there was a problem with too many big guns showing up too (especially ironic when the censors have gone through every original US animation over the decades, along with various anime from japan, to edit out the guns and put rediculous laser weapons in their place, or just chop out gun scenes entirely), which was especially rediculous in his Supreme title, even if one version of him HAD in fact been somehow depowered.

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-- Peter David

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#7 is the worst of the bunch imho.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2007 11:59AM by Punstarr.

Hmmmm, that does look physically impossible without some serious physical re-engineering or some kind of power to survive it.

As far as all the pouches go, depending on the character they make sense, especially for military or espionage characters who carry a variety of items for any situation. That's all Batman's utility belt is after all, a specialized set of belt pouches for equipment storage.

Frankly I'm surprised more heroes and villains don't have some. Just look at Mr. Fantastic, he focuses more on his intelligence than his powers almost all the time, it'd make sense for him to have a variety of pouches with various equipment. My character Paragon for example have a variety of pouches carrying gear for a nearly any situation her powers aren't suited for.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2007 12:09PM by Nightmask.

Yeah but... how many pouches is too many?

I liked the big guns and the pouches.


And i do admit Liefeld has a lot of deficiencies as an artist. But that one sequence with shatterstar looks kinda cool to me.

When they impede physical movement and result in penalties in and/or out of combat.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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Well the bad part about that Shatterstar sequence is how in the first panel, Cable and Domino's feet look so small they almost disappear.

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #8
> [www.coverbrowser.com]

Wow, if you squint your eyes a bit, the pouches look kind'a like ballerinas tutus. Now they look like they are just frolicking. It's what I thought they were wearing at first glance.

My character uses pouches too, but not that many.





flam-ing.
-noun

1. Computer Slang. an angry, critical, or disparaging electronic message, as an e-mail or newsgroup post.
-verb (used without object)

2. Computer Slang. to send an angry, critical, or disparaging electronic message.
-verb (used with object)

3. Computer Slang. to insult or criticize angrily in an electronic message.
-Verb phrase

4. *Flaming, flamer* and *flamboyant* are potentially pejorative adjectives for a gay man or LGBT person whose behavior is reflected in a stereotypical flamboyancy, manner or style (see also gay culture and camp) but also refers to anyone seen as showy, outrageous, eccentric or unique stylistically




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2007 12:48PM by RAGNARoK.

Thats to FUNNY but you have a good point:D

MAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOOOOOP!!!!

TAG

Look, I partially dumped on him from the What would I do if I ran Marvel... thread but if Fan Boyz did NOT buy his books he would be less well known.

I had a friend named Rick Mays who actually broke into comics as an artist ( he worked on Nomad for his first pro-job ) and he told me many artist including him resented Liefield because Rick ( and others) had to practice and employ anatomy and proportion and dozens of other uses of art realism that Rob would ignore and he became a millionaire.

But I still dont think its the artist or writer ( or actor or whoever ) fault if they are considered bigger-popular than there skill should permit. I mean Liefield and Macfarlane were 2 of the top 5 biggest artists in there day. It's too bad there were at least 30 better comic artist out there.

For the record Todd Macfarlane in my opinion was very good for comics in the late 80's and Spiderman- he was just over-rated based on his skill.

A good point, it's like the hate groups around the actor who played Westley Crusher on ST:TNG, because they hated his character overshadowing the main actors so often. It wasn't his fault, he didn't write the scripts, and while it's the flip side of getting pushed into popularity (he got infamy instead) it demonstrates how it's others outside of him and the others that push them into those rolls. It might swell someone's head eventually to where they feel they can do anything and get away with it (Paris Hilton anyone?) they didn't make it happen, it was outsiders instead.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

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[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

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Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A good point, it's like the hate groups around the
> actor who played Westley Crusher on ST:TNG,
> because they hated his character overshadowing the
> main actors so often. It wasn't his fault, he
> didn't write the scripts, and while it's the flip
> side of getting pushed into popularity (he got
> infamy instead) it demonstrates how it's others
> outside of him and the others that push them into
> those rolls. It might swell someone's head
> eventually to where they feel they can do anything
> and get away with it (Paris Hilton anyone?) they
> didn't make it happen, it was outsiders instead.

Wow, Hate groups? Really? I never knew. I actually thought they should've done more with the Wesley Crusher character on ST:TNG. They did more for the character Lt. Paris on Voyager who I beleive was suppose to be the same character that Wesley Crusher was paired up with on a SR:TNG series, this was a pre-Voyager episode but I know it was definately the same actor but younger then, when they both were in the academy doing flight maneuvers and caused a accident by doing some forbidden star burst stunt or something that resulted in the death of a Starfleet Cadet. Both were expelled from Starfleet Academy and since Paris was responsible for the death, he did prison time but was later exalted from prison but only if he was willing to pilot Voyager because they needed his exemplary piloting skills. But with Crusher, they instead made him become a partner with the Traveler and that was the end of the Crusher story in all of Star Trek.



flam-ing.
-noun

1. Computer Slang. an angry, critical, or disparaging electronic message, as an e-mail or newsgroup post.
-verb (used without object)

2. Computer Slang. to send an angry, critical, or disparaging electronic message.
-verb (used with object)

3. Computer Slang. to insult or criticize angrily in an electronic message.
-Verb phrase

4. *Flaming, flamer* and *flamboyant* are potentially pejorative adjectives for a gay man or LGBT person whose behavior is reflected in a stereotypical flamboyancy, manner or style (see also gay culture and camp) but also refers to anyone seen as showy, outrageous, eccentric or unique stylistically




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2007 08:05AM by RAGNARoK.

I agree with you on this sentiment. Rob Liefeld was the highest paid artist on Marvel's payroll during that 90's era, and he did become a millionaire based off of his popularity. And while he wasn't the best artist by any stretch, his work did sell a lot of funnybooks. That wasn't Rob's fault, really it wasn't even the fans' fault. it just was.

I also agree that Rob really does have some glaring flaws, but I remember when i was, oh, about 11 or 12 when I first saw his art work. it had a really kinetic feel to it, it felt like there was just a ton of action happening. It was exciting for its time, and also very different. McFarlaine was the same way, although of much higher quality than liefeld, and much better at things like backgrounds. But it was a departure from the tried and true methods of comic book sequentials, and offered a fresh take. It was exciting for its time, sexy, fast-paced, larger than life, and for a great many, pleasing to the eye. As time went on, the mystique with Liefeld wore off [not so much with McFarlaine - he just simply quit drawing at one point and started counting his millions] and his deficiencies just too numerous to ignore or pass off. But in the beginning, early on in his career, it was a lot of fun. Kind of like magic cards or cocaine.

Fans hated Westley saving the day so much, even though as a prodigy and perhaps one of the most advanced humans at the time (they have to come from somewhere after all) it wasn't so surprising that he'd be helpful in solving problems faster than the adults, just like a musical prodigy at 10 is doing works that rival or exceed some of the past and current greats in music. The writers just rammed it down the throats of fans too much just how brilliant he was and fans being fans blamed the obvious target, the actor, rather than the writers truly responsible for things.

People have even created webpages with names like 'diewestleydie.com' (probably got the actual name wrong since I've never bothered to look at any of the actual groups), which is ironic for a character so hated that they wanted him expunged to give him these groups dedicated to him. Even some alt. newsgroups with similar titles. If you check out that tropes website Punstarr posted at one point there's even one dedicated to Westley.

[tvtropes.org]

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

Even Wil Wheaton disliked Wesley Crusher ;)

since Leifeld has pillows stuffed with money he can sleep well but...

There was no exuse with his lazyness ripping off George Perez panal by panal ( New Teen Titans #1 ) because he did not want to take the time to think for himself.
Or draw with a little more accuracy in the way of proportion. The Captain America chest shot is infamous.

i just think he was Not ground breaking in art but rather just part of the new trend in big high end action, sexy in your face FLUFF that was coming out in the 90's.

you know Jack Kirby was the one who pushed the envelope in this regard that those others took and just added pcp-speed to.

since Leifeld has pillows stuffed with money he can sleep well but...

There was no exuse with his lazyness ripping off George Perez panal by panal ( New Teen Titans #1 ) because he did not want to take the time to think for himself.
Or draw with a little more accuracy in the way of proportion. The Captain America chest shot is infamous.

i just think he was Not ground breaking in art but rather just part of the new trend in big high end action, sexy in your face FLUFF that was coming out in the 90's.

you know Jack Kirby was the one who pushed the envelope in this regard that those others took and just added pcp-speed to.