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Warlock
Maybe it's just bias but.....
December 12, 2001 10:44AM
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<HTML> Has anyone else noticed that suspension of disbelief when dealing with DC comics is stretched a little too thin? Between Superman's ability to hide behind glasses and the fact that the alien J'onn J'onz just happened to meet and take the place of the human cop John Jones, it seems as if at times they don't splash even a hint of reality in the mix to make it at least marginally believable. The Kid Flash was visiting Barry Allen (I think it was Barry) at the lab when miraculously a second bolt of lightning struck the same shelf of chemicals and produced the same effects? Don't get me wrong Marvel has some pretty lame leaps of faith as well but it seems to me as if DC is just riddled with it. I may be a geek that is in his late 20s still watches cartoons and reads comics, but people please. I DO have an IQ in the triple digits.
That said I did make an NPC named Andrew Robert Senal or A.R. Senal or Arsenal but then again I don't make the big bucks writing for a major comics company either.
Food for thought. :arc:
DG</HTML>
Re: Maybe it's just bias but.....
December 12, 2001 04:54PM
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Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 470
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<HTML>You have to remember that a lot of characters were made back in the old days. I guess... it was more believable back then? ^_^;;</HTML>
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Meltdown
Bias. . .
December 12, 2001 05:26PM
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<HTML>A.R. Senal? Well it's good to know that you've admitted it and moved on from it (I know, you thought it was cool in the middle of a Mountain Dew/Skittle bender - we've all done it.)
But yes, I'd have to drop the scales in DC's favor in the stupidity department. However, one could make the case equally for the Marvel Universe. Why is it that EVERYONE in the Marvel Universe has worked with Wolverine at some time in the past?
This guy is supposed to be a brooding, animalistic, loner, not the belle of the ball. It's so bad that you couldn't play six degrees of Wolverine, cause he's been with almost EVERYBODY!
I can almost forgive an CLASS 5000 intensity suspension of disbeleif in the DC universe, but I can't forgive the double standard by which the Marvel Universe works. Follow me on this one. If, everbody has worked with Wolverine (a known mutant); and if, every superhero that has super powers has been mutated in some manner (thus making THEM mutants); then, wouldn't it stand to reason that public super heros would take a stand for mutant rights?
But then again, these are just comics; I could be wrong.</HTML>
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Warlock
Re: Bias. . .
December 14, 2001 10:54AM
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<HTML>I agree. I think it comes down to the problem with the comics in that what makes sense and is intelligent is not always what sells and/or makes sense when you try and fit it into this wonderful little game of ours. The superman stat discussion going on elswhere on the boards comes down to that very point IMHO. If it wasn't for sales you wouldn't see silly things along the lines of Cap and Logan palin' around. :D
And as far as the Mutant hating goes I posted almost the same thoughts on the former boards (may they rest in peace). If they would accept some why not all. Why would people care what powered your abilities. An optic blast will punch a hole through your chest wether done by a mutant, altered human or Mary Poppins.
DG</HTML>
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D. Goforth
Re: Bias. . .
December 16, 2001 08:23PM
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<HTML>Heh Warlock man, I agree with you totally. In fact, I'll get the Hulk and you can take Thor and let's go kick the entire DC univeres' collective candy a****! Nuff said. Take care.</HTML>
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Detonator X
Re: Bias. . . not quit enough...
December 17, 2001 11:40PM
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<HTML>Just as long as I can get my power ring, Darkseid and Doomsday, wipe the floor with goldylocks and the gamma troll...
While I agree that both universes have gross inconsistances and deal with things in a sureal manner, this is fantasy that is striving to have some basis in reality that we can all relate to (adults and children alike). While comics have historically drawn a more intelligent crowd, that is not to say that the average guy or young child should need a high tripple digit iq to read them. Part of the fun of comics is the suspension of disbelief for which DC and marvel is famous for. Yes it is irriatating to see the one bad guy come back every so often, but it is also something u expect, but not knowing when to expect it. If the writer is worth his word processor, then this will be handled well. As for the clark kent "i hide behind glasses" issue, Most people walk around in a daze in real life and miss subbtlies all the time. No one can be aware 24/7 and the comic's secret identity idea plays on that. Look at people like Storm, Rogue, exct. They dont wear glasses and yet they can walk down the street and not be recognized. Explain that.
Considering we have mutants, aliens, spirits, robots and armored villians and vigilanties running amok, where does sense figure into it at all? The only sense that should be made is this:
If the character is dead, make certian that he stays dead (unless u use the life after death... table from Zans site i believe).
And no Warlock, I am not jumping on the coat tails of an argument here just to keep it going. I am making a comment on somethingthat i have heard for years and it has always bugged me how people are always trying to rationalize and complain about the suspension of disbelief.
my two cents.</HTML>
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overkill
Re: Bias. . . not quit enough...
December 21, 2001 03:30AM
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<HTML>Both sides have stupid things, but the difference here is simplicity. Whether or not Wolverine has teamed up with a lot of people really doesn't make a whole lot of difference. He's a key Marvel figure. Superman's worked with a whole lot of people too.
However, in the case of raw simplicity, the whole Kent-glasses thing is just plain -out there- for all to see. What happens when someone else in Metropolis puts on glasses, changes their hair color, grows a beard or mustache, or what-have-you? Does everybody immediately figure he's a missing person? I can imagine Halloween must be super-easy in Metropolis.
A lot of this can be attributed to the age when these characters were made (of course, most superheroes didn't have such an obvious disguise bit) but frankly DC had a lot more of this going on. Heck, things got so bad with their continuity they had to jam it all together with Crisis.
That's not bias, but merely calling a spade a spade.
Just my .02,
Rick</HTML>
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Fangs
Re: Bias. . . not quit enough...
December 21, 2001 04:04AM
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<HTML>Thus we know that in the comics that the writers.(depending on the writer) screw up the secret Identity issue and realism an a regular basis b/c the authors and artists tend to change when it suits the organisation whim.
Ok then fair enough on what has been stated from all quarters. How about in your own game then.
Do you enforce a believeable disguise?
(for me only if the players want to)
Do you Keep tabs on the Foibles that the Players make with their heros?
(I most definately do)
Do you exercise every opportunity to have a non-desirable NPC come out of the wood work each week and Attack the PC's
(for me I don't but I sure as heck keep it as a plot device If I cant think of any thing else to throw at them.)
I am currently dealing with one senario along these lines. Yet to be resolved.
However one character has come very close to carking it though....
The reason that we don't or at least that I don't is b/c it may not suit me to do so. At the moment it does... and also b/c it fits in with the plot as I have run it to date.
Fangs</HTML>
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Warlock
Re: Bias. . . not quit enough...
December 21, 2001 10:02AM
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<HTML>I leave the identities only unless the PCs are REALLY stupid. They run into a phone booth in front of their co-workers and come out as stupendous man I believe they blew their indentities not I. Sometimes I play around and threaten their identities with exposure which can be fun al by it's self as they scramble around trying to protect it. As long as the char has some sort of way to hide themselves from the public I don't mess with it.
DG :bounce:</HTML>
Re: Bias. . . not quit enough...
December 31, 2001 07:16AM
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Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 17
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<HTML>Okay, this reply isn't meant to instigate anything, just offering facts up...
in defense of Superman, there is more to his disguise than just donning a pair of glasses. It had been stated when Byrne revamped him that he is constantly vibrating with his superspeed to blur what he looks like. Does this make total sense, no... but let's look at the uhm, movies. Did anyone else notice how much different Christopher Reeves was when he was Clark and when he was superman? He slouched abit, demeanor was completely different. Its like it was said in a recent GL issue, people who see heroes see a figure who is larger than life, beyond human. They don't grasp the fact they have ordinary lives.
As for the Wally WEst transformation into the flash, that was also written up in an issue of the Flash. Through a time warp incident, the lightning bolt that struck the chemicals was actually Wally West, The Flash, rushing through time. So in effect he created himself, just like Barry did for himself when he gave his life up.
Am I defending the stupidity of DC, not really, because both companies have made some pretty bone-headed mistakes. Just clearing a few issues is all.
Cavalier</HTML>
Peace through Superior Firepower!
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