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Unbalanced!! DC Heroes RPG converted To MSH
Posted by Silverbolt
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I am sitting here converting characters from the DC heroes RPG To MSH to use in a campaign that I am running tommorrow.
I am amazed at the unbalance in most DC heroes and Villians once coverted. Too many character have INSANE STATS!!! I been looking at conversion table to see what is viable and BELIEVABLE for the classic marvel system. Trust me, the one that I am using now is somewhat believable. BUT, I am not going to allow PC to use certain stats. Superman (More like super joke for stats) Fighting : AM (50) Agility : UN (100) (DOUBT IT!!!) Strength : SHZ (500) (Maybe in a galaxy that have nothing but yellow suns!!) Endurance : SHX (150) (It is standard for all Aliens???!?!?!) Reason : RM (33) Intuition : IN (40) (Maybe If he was drunk during the Pre-Crisis) Psyche : AM (52) (Hello!!!!! Magic and Psionics can hurt him) Health : 800 (NOT IN THIS LIFE TIME) Karma : 125 (Leading and Being A boy scout does not count in this total!!) Resources : GD (11) Popularity : 100 / 10 There is no way in hell I would allow stats like that in a Game!!!!! I don't care about the Mayfair Games eqivalents!!! Some one was smoking crack when this conversion was done!! Anyway, I am disappointed since it will be that much hard to get a Good Marvel Vs DC campaign going. I hate unbalanced character conversions. Oh well, back to the drawing board!!! "It doesn't matter if I win or lose. Just as long as I pissed you off" --- Morrigian, Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
It's DC, what did you expect?
Seriously, i just use Hyperion crossed w/ the Superman stats here. Works fine. However, w/ the new Supreme series out, perhaps one of the newer Marvel RPG's will list stats for Hyperion that you can convert more easily. What conversion chart are you currently using?
Yeah... I was working on some Dragonball stats and stuff for a friends game. It's not easy to keep that balanced.
Saiyans, Hybrid Saiyans, and Freiza's species - I set these up as have a "Changling" type with many of their forms being Compound forms. If your playing such a species you role to see how many forms you get during character creation. Saiyans ---------- Saiyan - Humanoid (Automatic Power: Animal Form - Giant Ape and Prehensile Tail) Super Saiyan - Humanoid / Demon SS2 - Humanoid / Deity SS3 - Humaniod / Demon/ Deity SS4 - Humanoid / Angel / Demon / Deity (Automatic Power: Animal Form - Golden Giant Ape and Prehensile Tail) Hybrid Saiyans ------------------- Hybrid Saiyan - Breed Mutant / Humanoid (Automatic Powers: Animal Form - Giant Ape and Prehensile Tail) Hybrid SS - Breed Mutant / Humanoid / Demon Hybrid SS2 - Breed Mutant / Humanoid / Deity Hybrid SS3 - Breed Mutant / Humanoid / Demon / Deity *Mystic Saiyan- Angel / Deity *Replaces base form. All other forms are cancelled. Freizan ------------ Form 1 - Humanoid (Automatic Powers: Prehensile Tail and Self-Sustenance) Form 2 - Humanoid / Muscular Form 3 - Humanoid / Demon Form 4 - Humanoid / Demon / Muscular Form 5 - Deity (Automatic Powers: Prehensile Tail) Of course their were special rules for Saiyan and Hybrid Saiyan changlings. You automatically have form 1 as your based form. You have to take the levels in order... no pick SS4 if you only roll two forms. And access to the forms other than the base form isn't automatic. You have to succeed in an Unearthly Psyche feat and spend 1000 Karma to gain access to a higher form permanently. Being reduced to form number times ten percent health (20%, 30%, 40%, 50%) automatically and instantly reduces you to the base form. No such rules apply to Frezian's... they are true changelings. Nameks, Fusions, Buu, Cell and others are all covered by the various Gestalt abilities. Blah... The Spirit Bomb and Super-Kamehame are power stunts associated with the Focus ability. Kaiouken is a variation of Control (magnification). Spirit Bomb - Focused Kinetic Bolt. For every round after the first you spend Focusing the "Spirit Bomb" the potential attack and damage is doubled by this power stunt. However each round the power rank of Focus temporarily drops - 1 CS and a power stunt feat must be made each round. If Focus temporarily drops to Shift 0, the Spirit Bomb is dropped and lost. If the character recieves damage, that damage x10 is removed from the Spirit Bomb's potential attack and damage and Focus temporarily drops -1 CS. Super-Kamehame - Focused/Spirit Gestalt Kinetic Bolt. This Power Stunt allows the character to increase the power of his attack to that of the sum of the total power ranks of himself and a teammate in his karma pool who is currently without physical form. His stats are still the only ones temporarily reduced to feeble. Kaiouken - Control : Power Magnification - Self. Raises all physical abilities and all powers by the power rank number of this power. This power may be no higher than UN (100) (Kaiouken x20). Power boost remains for 1 to 10 rounds. After that time a power feat and an endurance feat of intensity equal to the power boost rank (and remember that the power boost itself is canceled for these feats) is needed to reassert and maintain the power each round. Failing the power feat means the power is unavaible for another 1 to 10 rounds. Failing the endurance feat means that the character suffers damage equal to this powers rank and must also roll for Stun, Slam or Kill results applying to themselves. A normal relatively Kaiouken is a power boost of 5 points to every physical ability and all powers. Higher levels are indicated by "x#" factor. Thus Kaiouken x4 would be a temporary power boost to all physical abilities and all powers of 20 rank points. Prolonged or unmonitored use of this power may have negative effects. The Judge may also rule that use of this power can potentially make the user lose control over certain powers. Blah... blah... blah...
Hey Sway if you need help in your DBZ campaigns check out the following on my site:
Saiyans---[www.angelfire.com] Nameks---[www.angelfire.com] Kais---[www.angelfire.com] The Z Team---[www.angelfire.com]
If those are pre-crisis there is nothing wrong with those superman stats.
F: Amz Ok true he has no formal experience, but superstrong fighters often get major fighting bonuses, just look at titania 2 (amz) or Tiger shark (amz). I believe this is to reflect how hard it is to fight someone when the rules change. i.e. you can't put some guy in a headlock if he can break your arm with his finger! A: UNE Why not? he's faster than a speeding bullet. In this way he is akin to quicksilver. S: Sh-Z Not bad, in pe-crisis, he has shown the ability to lift a battleship, ram his shoulder against the earth and change the direction of it's orbit. Kind of cheesy but dead on. E: Sh-X Well he never tired, resistant to all earthly diseases, could fly from Earth to deep into the cold outerspace and back, yeah not bad. R: Rem No probs here, not a genious but he did build many weapons in the fortress of solitude. In fact he should probably have good reason but INC hyper-invention. I: Inc This should actually be higher, more like MNS but I suppose Inc isn't too bad. He has practically every single detection power! I suppose this reflects Superman's trusting nature. He could use his super hearing to listen in on someone's heartbeat to see if their lying but doesn't. P: Amz Not too bad, seems a tad high, I'd give him an INC. He has Indomnitable will and has broken the hold of mind control over him in several issues threw force of will alone. it may unbalance the game, but it is true to the character. Someday there will be no racism. Thats the day aliens will attack. Then we will all hate green people.
I think that might just have been in defence of DC characters being balanced. Afterall the original arguement was a wee bit skewed.
In stating that the DC characters were unbalanced the original poster used "Superman" as his primer... that is a bit off. Even in the DC universe itself Superman is considered one of the most all-around powerful beings in the universe. I believe the post was meant to say you could say the same thing about "some" of the official Marvel characters. Basically basing the statement that DC heroes are unbalanced on Superman's stats is like basing that Marvel heroes are unbalanced on the stats of the Hulk, the Phoenix, Professor X, Galactus, or X-Man. All that being granted... DC does have a few unnaturally powerful heroes.... Superman, Green Lantern, and the Flash. Of course the Flash is only a "heavyweight" because DC and Marvel use a different "max" for ground speed. Okay... now I'm babbling...
Superman has been recorded from DC Comics to lift approximately 800,000,000 lbs. Or something stupid like that.
Didn't someone once mention something about Superman towing something planet-sized through space once? As for Superman with high fighting ability, there was a graphic novel where near the end, Superman got put into Cobra's body and Cobra was put into Batman's body... despite the advantage Cobra had at the start, Superman still won, with normal fighting ability. Apparently, the pain from the hits was almost nothing compared to Kryptonite (though he did complain about the pain after the fight was done :3)
Actually I meant that when thery went and modelled the characters, they didn't take into account the talents that the characters had.
Take Cpt. America for instance. Drop a rank from his physical abilities and he would still be the most impressive human on the planet. With his martial arts, he would still have Amazing fighting. With the Acrobatics, Incredible agility. I just think that the Official characters are a little too powerful in Marvel. That being said, the thread is about DC characters and what I find with them is that you should not go with a literal translation of the characters ,especially based on gaming systems. The systems have two different scales for stats: Marvel, linear; DC, exponential. Instead, go for the flavor. Like Superman F 20 EX A 20 EX S 20 EX E 30 RM R 20 EX I 20 EX P 10 GD Health: 90 Karma: 50 Resource: GD(10) Popularity :100 - for the love of Pete this stat is world-wide! Powers: Telekinesis - AM power at FE range with the following power stunts - Hyper-Strength - Hyper Endurance - Force Field (for reinforcing structural integrity of large objects) - True Invulnerability - Hyper-Expulsion Hyper-Running - RM with the following power stunts - Hyper-Fighting - Hyper_Agility - Hyper-Speed True Flight - UN Body Resistance - GD Heat Emmision (eyes) - AM Microscopic Vision - RM Telescopic Vision - RM Penetrating Vision - RM Add to it that his True Invulnerability is useless against magic and a Fatal Allergy to Kryptonite, continuous with contact and there you go...Superman toned down to "reasonable" levels.
Let me clarify me statement.
The DC characters are unbalance in the MSH RPG due to 3 things: 1. the timeline from which the character is taken from. For instance, any pre-crisis character can not be playable due to insane power levels. There are too many version of the same character to accuracy say is this correct or not. 2. there is not a fine line between attributes and powers between must characters in DC. Superman for example is said that can lift 800,000,000 tons. However, this lifting compacity is not due to raw strenght. Superman lifting compacity is partly due to his telekinesis and his strenght. However, DC comics have not define where one stops and the other takes over. So Giving Supes Shift Y strenght is inaccurate regardless of time era. 3. the conversion System for DC Heroes RPG (or Blood of Heroes who like 3rd Ed.) measure powers and stats in a way that is not 100% compatible with MSH RPG. Overall, it is hard to come up with accurate Stats For DC Characters. "It doesn't matter if I win or lose. Just as long as I pissed you off" --- Morrigian, Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Marvel comics has always listed their characters within those ranges, even in the comics themselves. Sure here and there a writer does something odd, but usually there's some pattern.
When the handbooks say over 100 tons, they don't mean 800,0000,000,000,000 or whatever superman benches.
I agree, but I believe it all comes down to one small error. Une strength should mean OVER 100 tons not up to 100 tons. How much over should be a judges discretion. Someday there will be no racism. Thats the day aliens will attack. Then we will all hate green people.
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