True Beyonders vs. Living Tribunal

Wolfspider could still take him. Imagine if he had beserker. Or does he? I forget.

Oh, be fair Spirit! I mean, Wolspider spent five WHOLE years building that character, earning Karma all the way....
DIE LIAR!! :rocket:

Don't forget he was HEAVILY PENALIZED while spending that karma.


"To each his own."

heh heh. you said penal. yeah.

I was just browsing through LT's write-up, and came up with a question: What is the point of LT having True Invulnerability at the Beyond level is he also has infinite health and karma?

Quantum,

Because by having Invulnerability at the Beyond Rank, then no entities with Beyond Rank damage powers can open up a can of whoop-@$$ on LT.

True, infinite health means an opponent cannot KO or kill him by reducing him to zero health (and then he has to fail a Class 5000 Endurance FEAT). BUT without Beyond Rank Invulnerability he would be subject to slams, stuns, and kill results from Beyond Rank damage powers that hit with a Yellow or Red result.

You see, if his Invulnerablity was Class 5000, and The Beyonder got a Red attack FEAT with a killing energy blast, there would be a ONE PERCENT chance that LT could be killed. With Beyond Rank Invulnerabilty there is a absolute zero chance of a kill.

SDI

I got a better one for ya': "Why stat characters like the Living Tribunal, Eternity, etc., at all?" I have always been against it. Quantifying them cheapens and demystifies them. It also puts them dangerously close to characters that have no business being within arm's reach of them, like the High Evolutionary, whose Karma is on par with Galactus and Master/Lord Order/Chaos. Frankly, even if a player could get stats and powers in the Class range, should he be rubbing elbows with the likes of Death or Infinity? I don't think so, be thats just my opinion.



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

I agree Kaz. LT is Beyond having stats. :lol:



DG X(

Marvel > DC

If they didn't have stats then WE'D all still be arguing about who is stronger: Eternity, Death or Living Tribunal!

Kaz,

Statistics for deitie-level beings never made sense to me either. I am thinkin back to my days when AD&D was king of my roleplaying life.

The book "Deities and Demigods" was packed with the gods of many belief sytems , including the Cthulu and Melnibonean Mythos'. ( I HAD the original before Chasoium threatened to sue TSR for stating those beings, thus forcing TSR to publish reprints without dread Cthulu or Elric of Melnibone).

All I could think about as I read the description of the gods was "Why am I ever going to need this information about their experience level, armor class and hit point totals?"

I mean, even if my player's characters encountered Arioch and then were foolish enought to piss him off. . . they die. I don't care if the Paladin and the Cleric-of-lawful-good-alignment are each 25th level. They automatically lose initiative and are transformed into flying cows or simply eaten alive by ten thousand pygmy cannibals. Saving Throws be damned. The only limits to what a god should be able to do is the DM's imagination. Same thing should go for Judges in MSH.

In MSH if LT, Death, Eternity, etc. launch an attack at a character , regardless if it is to restrain them, KO them , or slay them; Guess what? They are going to be restrained, stunned, or dead.

SDI

Chaosium had the best rule I've seen for a monster encounter. If the party ever actually encounters Cthulu him/itself, the DM ( or whatever he is called in Chaosium games ) rolls a 1d4. The result is the number of party members that die this round. Roll again at the beginning of every round until all party members are dead. Thank you, please come again.



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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm the rest of his life

I agree. One of my beefs with 3rd edition D&D is the fact that with the Epic LEvel Handbook (which is in and of itself cool) Deities become just uber-badass monsters. They are truly bad to bone and while you'd need rediculously high level characters to even take down a Demigod, it can be done with the rules as written.

Rediculous. Gods are gods and no mortal should even be able to hurt one, regardless of level and/or power attained.



DG X(

Marvel > DC

Raistlin Majere...

Whoops. Didn't mean to reveal the full extend of my geekery.

-Wal

Thanos of Titan

Exactly. Thanos as NPC? Yes. Raistlin as NPC? Yes. But should PCs ever challenge Deities and Cosmic Entities. No.



DG X(

Marvel > DC

Warlock

I see your point.

Just out of curiosity, what's the most powerful characters any of you have ever allowed as PCs?

Sun King,

Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Thor, and Hulk.


Their stats and powers speak for themselves.

I ran Thor and Hulk together once. The first encounter was Fafnir showing up. I was unfamiliar with just how much of a threat Fafnir could be. The Judge showed me the drawing of the beast and described him as being 50' tall. I had no idea of his defenses, all I knew was that Fafnir was a butt-ugly dragon.

I did not want to monkey around and did not want to wait on Hulk's surges to take affect, so I declared Unfettered Might for Thor. I won initiative by one point, and Thor flew up and slugfested with Mjolnir. Shift-Z damage boomed out of THE hammer and the Judge applied Fafnir's Monstrous (75) protection v. the 500 point attack. With "only" a 410 Health
, Fafnir went down with one punch.

Now that is power.

However, we play MSH with Standard Rank Numbers ONLY. If we had used the Advanced Set's suggestion of using the minimum rating value when shifting up, then the Unfettered Might would have done (351 - 75 =) 276 points of damage dropping Faf's Health to 134. It would not have been quite as dramatic and stupefying, but most likely Faf would have gone down by the end of round three instead of being one-punched.

Anyway, we played the way we did and the Judge just kept looking at Fafnir's character sheet, then looking at Thor's, and trying to figure out how he could possibly prevent Faf from being KO'd so quickly. Other than using his Judge's "perogative" to "pull a bunny out of a hat" , that is too say "fudge the rules" , Fafnir was staying down. And he did.

SDI

Actually, Gods can still do lots to an Epic-Level PC -- like lay curses on them that non non-deity can resist, and alter reality in ways they can't even imagine. Plus, if I recal correctly, deities are immortal in that, normally, a deity can only truly & permanently be killed by another deity of equal or greater Divine Rank.

But, getting back to what started this tangent -- why stat out gods? Well, you don't really need to (unless the PC's themselves are playing deities, but we'll assume that's not the case), but you do need to stat out their Avatars, which are what mortals interact with.



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Be Ex/20 to one another!

Even run-ins with Avatars should be a once in a lifetime event, unless of course you are playing a Greek mythology sort of Pantheon that seems to show up whenever someone butters their bread. ;)



DG X(

Marvel > DC

Hmm...

Superhero chicks are, in 98% of cases, attractive. Which means they will, indeed, have Hellenic Gods showing up every time one of them decides to tie her shoes without bending her knees...

Now that would be an interesting scenario. You have to fend off the unwanted attentions of a God, without pissing him off ('cause that'd be kind of suicidal). And then he can send the heroes on an utterly pointless quest.

Hey, divine intervention! The MacGuffin for all occasions!

-Wal