WHo is the best Hand to Hand Melee fighter?

I started this thread because I saw its birth in the DC Stats thread. Someone stated that Batman will blow out Captain America. I disagree. I think it could easily go either way. One person I would like to throw in is Mantis. On here she is only stated IN fighting but in the adavced set I bought like 15 years ago, she had Mn Fighting. Matter of fact she was the only example. I was sketicle at first but I have seen her take out teams with her alien martial arts. She was the celestial Madonna. I think she will massacre battie easily. I dont even think batman can beat Moon knight. Okay just jokin about that one, but i dont think he can beat Mantis.

Batman only "blows out" Captain America because of a serious armament advantage. In a no-equip fight, its basically even, with the arena determing who gets the extra .1-.2 wins out of 10 fights.

In Marvel, the best human fighter is probably Stick, along with the rest of the Chaste. Gamorra and Mantis are better, but neither are really human.

In DC, the best in current time is Richard Dragon, who could probably take down Spider-man on sheer martial arts skill. However, in the Legion era, there is Karate Kid, who fights against Daxamites ( think Kryptonian ) on even terms based solely on martial arts skill. Yes, that is ludicrous, but its the facts.

As for how they compare:

Batman = Captain America, more or less.

Lady Shiva = Shang-Chi, more or less.

Richard Dragon = Stick, more or less.

Karate Kid = Gamora or Mantis, more or less.

Nightwing = Daredevil, more or less.

Good enough??

What about Ransak, the Deviant? He is supposed to be a phenomenal combatant. And let's not forget Karnak of the Inhumans.

I forgot the obvious.. Wolfspider. He has Cl1000 Fighting. Seriously, Karnak has the great ability to find weaknesses in ppl and structurs but all around I do not he much above daredevil or iron fist. I have seen ppl rank punisher fighting as amazing but when does he fight. All my issues he throws maybe one punch and shoot up everything. Same sgoes for Nick Fury.

Hulk starts at Incredible then goes all the way up to Shift-Z. Oh , no! Please lets not start yet another HULK THREAD! Just laugh.

SDI

Best fighter, hmmm...

I would say Taskmaster. Read his limited seires to see what I mean. He can go toe to toe with anyone. Heck, he has been aroundsince the 70's and has never been caught once, and he regularly goes up against the likes of the Avengers, Pure skill baby!

Through, I am surprised no one mentioned Wolverine or Sabertooth. When they are in berserker fury they are no chumps either. Both are easily a match for Captain America.

Let get R-E-A-D-Y T-O-O-O R-U-M-B-L-E
General Electric

Well, if we're talking pure fighting skill, we have to expand to include some of the Marvel gods, too - the obvious, like Thor, and the not-so-obvious, like Ares. I would say the best unarmed combatant among the gods would be Hercules, though. Before anyone starts howling, I might remind them that the ancient Greeks really did have martial arts, while I can't imagine the Norse doing much more than brawling.
Gods aside, I didn't read the Taskmaster limited series, but I agree he's good. But let's not forget Elektra, or Bullseye, or Mr. Hyde. Crimson Commando's mutant powers make him the ultimate combatant, and isn't that Shatterstar a good fighter? (I don't know, but see the Rogue thread for my thoughts on this guy.)

I think this thread should be limited to mutants, normals, and altered humans. While the others are tuff. There is no real doubt about how skilled/powerful they are. After all, they are GODS, Aliens with vast powers, or Cosmic enties. Lets keep this to people without vast resources(powers to call upon) like Thor. Heck, I am sure Gamorea, the chick from Infinite Watch could wup much tail.

If your from Earth please raise your hand
OK, you all may enter the arena to see if your really the badest out there.

General Electric

Or people with strenght above IN to keep it fair.

General Electric

DEADPOOL!!
Woop Woop Woop!!!!!

scanning the thread, i didnt see Nick fury mentioned. I dont recall his stats, but i seem to remember him being on par with daredevil, if not cap. I also didnt see Black Widow (the original) on there either. She has alos fought DD to a standstill. Not sure if Nick and 'tash are in league with who has been mentioned, but both have a long history as hand to hand combatants and I thought they deserved a mention.

my $.02

Dx :hot-hot-hot:

How about Blade from the movie. Now he kicked @#$%& and fang.


"To each his own."

These are the top tier fighters in the marvel universe from earth.
Shangi chi
Wolerine
Sabertooth
Captain America
Task Master
Black Panther
Iron Fist
Silver sable
They all have Amazing fighting. Of these Wolerine and sabertooth can last the longest. Shang-Chi and Iron Fist can do the most damage. Task Master can master all thier moves in 3 rounds. It is a tough call. Black Panter is alwas under estimated, and Cap usualy comes out on top.

Do want to give honorable mention to Karnack, Gaur, Mantis and "the best martail artist in the univers" Gamora. To bad thier not human.

So, who will run this tornament, eh? I would like to see who would come out on top. I looked around and AM seems to be the hightest fighting rank achieveable without it being a power.

In this Coner!
General Electric

The comparisons I already mentioned can be used to arrange pretty much any top tier people.

Nick Fury, for instance, would be between Nightwing and Batman in skill. Closer to Nightwing, since while he has more skill and experience in combat, he has inferior training and less esoteric martial arts skills.

Moonrazor, you're right about the Greeks having martial arts. They developed what is called Greco-Roman wresting, and the Greek empire also developed and taught the first Greek martial art, Pankration. It basically was a thrown-together meld of boxing and wrestling according to the martial arts book I have. However, the ancient vikings were no slouches either. I would say they had rudimentry forms of boxing, along with alot of blunt weapon training like clubs, hammers, staves, and some swords. Being raiders and pillagers, they probably adopted or stole some of the ideas of the cultures they overthrew. I'm just going on my memories though from studying a little bit about them in college, I'm no expert on them at all. Maybe someone here could add to that. What form or forms of weapon and martial art combat would the ancient vikings have used? Thanks.

Hulk fan,
I was really more talking about unarmed, rather than armed, martial arts. Many, many cultures developed the latter, but the former was a little more rare.
Now, I know that boxing itself was invented in the Middle Ages by an English monk or friar who wanted to give young English men something other than knives to use to settle things.
There is a Russian martial art, called Sambo, I believe. In addition, probably the Norse had some kind of unarmed fighting style, but it was never formalized and was probably fairly basic. Anybody seen Eric the Viking, when they're all sitting around the longhouse? Enough years of that stuff and you're bound to pick up a few tricks. However, I doubt they had formalized classes or lessons like the Greeks did with wrestling.
I still wonder where Elektra and Bullseye fit in. I completely forgot Silver Sable earlier, but I would remind everyone that Daredevil's fighting prowess and athletic ability has enabled him to hold his own against Hogun the Grim (albeit an injured Hogun.)
Also, what about Puck?

Champion is the best. The only threat to him in hand to hand melee fighting would be the Thing (it was a lucky wrestling move), a Saiyan Elite during a Full Eclipse, the Flash (if he trained in martial arts), Nemesis Omega (one of my homegrown android villains in the nightmares of futures past setting, think of the Vision fused with the Super-Android 15 from one of the DBZ movies: F:Un A:In S:Un E:SY R:Ex I:Ex P:Ex), Doomsday, Karnak (only if he wins the initiative roll), and Majin Buu.

Marvel near-human characters (and mebbe DC) are the topic here, not cosmic level powerhouses.

And Deadpool would still whoop up on all your picks. Desperation moves just don't get better than shoving your arm down Sabertooth's windpipe and then cutting it off at the elbow! Yea!

Tounge mostly in cheek
Turbo Jellyfish

Deadpool only has incredible fighting. The top eight can match and raise him one @#$%& woppen. Who do you think is tougher out of Shangi chi, Wolerine, Sabertooth, Captain America, Task Master, Black Panther, Iron Fist, or Silver sable.
Deadpool is tuff mind you and may win more than his fair share with his incredible fighting but he will lose against those listed above on average.

General Electric

Very interesting topic...

Here are some other candidates:

THe Foreigner
Ka-Zar the savage
Titania (well she has Amz fighting in AA)
The Punisher
Karl champion (old Avengers villain)
Moon Knight
The collective man

Anyhow, In my opinion the winner and champ-been for normal human-mutant-altered human is

Captain America

Ok lets look at the other candidates:

Taskmaster - very skilled, but limited to only what he has studied a good fighter will adapt some creativity in his fighting and flatten old TM.

Wolverine, sabretooth -- consistently given Inc fighting. Besides in my opinion rage should DECREASE fighting skill not increase it.

SHang-CHi -- my number 2 pick but he seems to have his fighting knowledge concentrated in Kung-FU

Iron FIst -- He's had 10 years of MA training in seclusion, meaning he has been subjected to just one type of martial arts.

Daredevil - Highly trained athlete, but as a practicing lawyer can he really have the time for total devotion to upgrading his fighting skills?

So imho, cap wins. He has trainning in a variety of MArtial arts, inculding American Boxing, Judo, Kung Fu, Karate, Wrestling etc. He always keeps a level head. He is a little order than most of Marvel heroes so he has experience but the SS serum keeps him vital.