Galactus vs The Molecule Man

Thanos would take Owen down. Then again, I think he could even take Galactus down with enough prep and resources. He's far more sneaky and devious than Owen and Galactus doesn't think in terms of deviousness. Thanos may not have Galactus' Reason but he's smarter than Reed Richards and Doctor Doom and possesses enough power to turn an unprepared Owen into dust particles. not that he'd even bother with a direct attack against the likes of Owen... oh trust me, if anyone can permanently kill the Molecule Man, it's Thanos of Titan... the being who outsmarted the devil. Thanos is just... Thanos. The whole lame "Drax killed Thanos in Annihilation" stuff aside, Thanos is in my opinion one of the most badass villains in Marvel history.

That's an unfounded assumption however, since you're assuming his learning curve conforms to human norms when he's definitely not a normal human and can without difficulty sense and manipulate as we've seen in Secret Wars trillions of tons of matter with about as much difficulty as a normal human adds 2 and two together. His mind is perfectly adapted to manipulating matter and energy and comprehends it in ways far beyond any human can, at cosmic levels of perceptions.

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Then you're saying his Reason should be in the Shift range to Class 1000+? It'd have to be for what you say he can do.

His Reason doesn't have to be that high to do all of that; Tweedledum has a Feeble Reason but constructs incredibly complex devices because he has Hyper-Invention. Owen similarly has an increased Reason in regards to the use and applications of his powers and can use them for far greater ranging effects than many would credit him with for his base Reason.

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Thanos regularly plots (often successfully) against beings as powerful as Eternity and Death so not that much of a reach that if he felt the need to he could plan out how to incapacite or at least temporarily kill Owen.

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That guy flirts with Death itself, which is the only reason he'd try to tangle with Galactus.

Meh. I don't buy it. If he were truly omniscient and omnipotent as you claim, he'd have every stat at Class 5000.

High power levels don't automatically translate into high stats, particularly when one can simply fake it with the powers or the powers take care of most of the trouble subconsciously.

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Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then you're saying his Reason should be in the
> Shift range to Class 1000+? It'd have to be for
> what you say he can do.

I'm still on the Galactus side of the stadium, but I'd argue that Molecule Man needs no CL1000 Reason understanding of his power any more than the Human Torch needs knowledge of thermodynamic theory to shoot fireballs. That's essentially what Owen was doing when he was blasting away at the Beyonder - raw diplays of power. Molecule Man is not going to do something he can't comprehend doing (create a galaxy from scratch stocked with millions of diverse original lifeforms and thousands of civilizations with histories) simply because he lacks the Reason to make his cosmic awareness "omniscient."

Another chink in Molecule Man's power comes from real-world quantum physics. "Dark matter," the theoretical explanation for why the universe has more gravity than detectable mass and energy can account for, is mass which contains no sub-atomic particles at all. If Molecule Man's power is based on the manipulation of atomic particles, his effect on the universe as a whole would be neglegible. He could alter features in localized areas, but certainly couldn't re-write the laws of nature.

And Galactus is the stopper in the drain of the bathtub of the Universe.

Actually you're assuming there when it comes to Dark Matter (and its repulsive cousin Dark Energy), since we don't know what creates either one can't say that they aren't made up of detectable sub-atomic particles, particularly to the man who's master of matter and by extension energy. Given Maelstrom at one point when having Anomaly's powers created a point where he was drawing all the dark matter in the universe to in order to force another Big Crunch on reality marvel seems to imply that at least for Marvel Physics dark matter is matter of some controllable sort and as such in the domain of Owen's powers.

As it stands now current scientific studies support the idea that the repulsive nature of Dark Energy has now exceeded the attraction of Dark Matter because things have flown too far apart and is now accelerating the dispersal of galaxies and will likely cause the galaxies later on to unravel until all stars flee from each other and so on until the fabric of reality so stretched it creates a new Big Bang, or actually a Brane event that restarts a new universe in the vaccuum of the old.

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All I've heard about Dark Energy is that it's supposedly the cause of the slowing of the universe's expansion.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> High power levels don't automatically translate
> into high stats, particularly when one can simply
> fake it with the powers or the powers take care of
> most of the trouble subconsciously.

In the case of omnipotence, I'd argue that yes, he'd need the stats to match. Eternity couldn't do what Eternity can do if his Reason, Intuition and Psyche were Typical.

That's an assumption, and Eternity doesn't do anything, it simply exists and responds if/when it perceives threats to its existence. if you amped up Magneto with the Mutant Power Intensifier to CL3000 levels he wouldn't suddenly have a requirement of a CL1000 Reason in order to use his powers. Graviton's another character with a high power level that if you increased its rank to CL5000 wouldn't suddenly have him unable to use it effectively and creatively at CL5000 levels. Also while Owen started out listed with a lower Reason and lack of skills he was still an employee and worked at a nuclear facility and had to have some useful skills and brains to get cleared (he wasn't a janitor after all, the accident that unleashed his power shows him working on a device, perhaps repairing it, when the accident occurs).

Considering characters like Magneto and Graviton are considered to have insights into reality others don't because of their powers why then is it so impossible for Owen, with greater power and greater awareness not benefit from that as well?

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No, Dark Matter slows the expansion, Dark Energy accelerates it, and currently things are now flying apart faster so with that acceleration it appears that the Dark Energy's repulsive nature now dominates over Dark Matter's attractive nature.

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Because you claim he's omnipotent right up there with Eternity and Death. I disagree. He's human, and only Jim Shooter ever considered him at the levels you prefer him at.

Not according to the article in a science mag I read. I'm not saying the article had it right, just that the article specifically stated that Dark Energy is supposedly responsible for the slowing, not the acceleration of the universe. I don't even remember the name of the magazine... just that it was on some flight and the magazine had (I swear to God) ads for things like hundred thousand dollar electron microscopes and other scientific equipment no one but actual scientific facilities could ever afford. The magazine at least seemed to be a professional science magazine. (Who else would run ads like that, after all?)

Thanos?

He's not in the same ballpark as the MM or Galactus, he's not even up to plate, not even in the same sport.

Thanos?

For cryin' out loud, Captain Marvel used to give him a hard time.

If Doom could trouble Owen and the Beyonder, Thanos could do far more. Yes, Thanos. You're looking at it strictly in a head to head raw power vs raw power way. Thanos wouldn't be that stupid. Far from it.

Thanos was originally written to be Captain Marvel's bad guy... that's why he was thwarted by him, in the same way that in the Fantastic Four books, Doom is always thwarted by the FF. It's how they were written... but Thanos evolved beyond that decades ago. He's really the ultimate villain. Check out his appearances in Infinity Gauntlet, War and Crusade, as well as his appearances in Infinity Watch and Silver Surfer. If Thanos desired it, Owen wouldn't even be aware of who was manipulating him. He's -the- schemer in Marvel. You underestimate him greatly.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2007 10:05PM by Punstarr.

They had to have meant Dark Matter since the material I read at space.com and other links lists Dark Matter as the attractive material and Dark Energy the repulsive material. Also don't let the labels confuse you, they have as little connection to their conventional meanings as the various types of quarks (Up, Down, etc.) have to the words used for them. They're just arbitrary labels picked for convenience.

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-- Peter David

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