Galactus vs The Molecule Man

Posted by Galactus 1 
This forum is currently read only. You can not log in or make any changes. This is a temporary situation.
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 03:50PM
avatar
Seems like a lot of focus on the idea that he must not be able to handle it because he must be too hampered by his mortality to comprehend things, as if it's impossible unleashing that potential in the first place opened him to comprehending such grandeur and that's just not so. His power even before the Secret Wars was enough to sense and rearrange matter across a city to build an impregnable fortress with a thought, something that would require being able to have a wider range of comprehension as an inherent part of the powers. Owen just isn't a mortal being anymore, and considering he made himself another body after his original one died in another dimension he's potentially immortal. As he is now he can sense tacyons and capture them with ease and unlike Galactus hasn't forgotten his mortal origins (yes don't forget that Galactus was originally a mortal being granted vast cosmic power and who seems to have grown into it just fine) to see and strive against any limits thrown at him.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 03:53PM
avatar
Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems like a lot of focus on the idea that he must
> not be able to handle it because he must be too
> hampered by his mortality to comprehend things, as
> if it's impossible unleashing that potential in
> the first place opened him to comprehending such
> grandeur and that's just not so.

Why? The whole point of the Dark Pheonix Saga was that the mortal mind is NOT capable of wielding that much power. Marvel seems pretty clear on it's feelings regarding mortals attempting to wield vast cosmic power.

Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 04:14PM
avatar
I think the Dark Phoenix saga was all about Jean Grey not being able to handle it after someone went mucking around in her mind and unleashing her dark side. There wasn't any evidence she was going to go all Galactus and consume everything until she was subjected to mind control that could turn anyone towards evil. Plus let's be real here, Galactus used to be mortal, became one of the tripod of cosmic existence for the Marvel Universe, and decided all those mortal beings he once was part of were beneath him now and if he had to feed well kiss your backsides goodbye. Galactus has more than enough power and technology at his command that he ought to be able to find worlds without sentient life to feed upon (heck creating a device like Reed Richards built to revive him he could get all the energy he needed from suns in systems without life) but doesn't care. At least Owen, with comparable if not greater power, doesn't go around eating entire worlds to survive; a cheeseburger he could make himself works just fine.

There's a growing need to show anyone with power, especially cosmic power, is inherently corrupted by it and needs to be depowered or destroyed, yet where is the argument that ones like the Silver Surfer with cosmic power must be inherently corrupted by that power? I don't hear how he's not worthy of his cosmic perspective because he started as a mortal. The High Evolutionary is in the same position, hyper-evolved and treated as a cosmic power even though he started as a mortal being and the evidence for his madness seems to be that it was forced upon him by the Beyonders so he'd be less of a threat to their study of Evolution in limited beings like humans. It really seems more of a heavy-handed morality lesson by always having those with more cosmic power who were mortal fall because 'only God deserves such power'.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 04:44PM
Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the Dark Phoenix saga was all about Jean
> Grey not being able to handle it after someone
> went mucking around in her mind and unleashing her
> dark side. There wasn't any evidence she was
> going to go all Galactus and consume everything
> until she was subjected to mind control that could
> turn anyone towards evil. Plus let's be real
> here, Galactus used to be mortal, became one of
> the tripod of cosmic existence for the Marvel
> Universe, and decided all those mortal beings he
> once was part of were beneath him now and if he
> had to feed well kiss your backsides goodbye.
> Galactus has more than enough power and technology
> at his command that he ought to be able to find
> worlds without sentient life to feed upon (heck
> creating a device like Reed Richards built to
> revive him he could get all the energy he needed
> from suns in systems without life) but doesn't
> care. At least Owen, with comparable if not
> greater power, doesn't go around eating entire
> worlds to survive; a cheeseburger he could make
> himself works just fine.
>
> There's a growing need to show anyone with power,
> especially cosmic power, is inherently corrupted
> by it and needs to be depowered or destroyed, yet
> where is the argument that ones like the Silver
> Surfer with cosmic power must be inherently
> corrupted by that power? I don't hear how he's
> not worthy of his cosmic perspective because he
> started as a mortal. The High Evolutionary is in
> the same position, hyper-evolved and treated as a
> cosmic power even though he started as a mortal
> being and the evidence for his madness seems to be
> that it was forced upon him by the Beyonders so
> he'd be less of a threat to their study of
> Evolution in limited beings like humans. It
> really seems more of a heavy-handed morality
> lesson by always having those with more cosmic
> power who were mortal fall because 'only God
> deserves such power'.


Dude Nightmask, you're trippin! You totally missed the point. Dark Phoenix wasn't about someone mucking in Jean Grey's head! It was about the human mind being subject to corruption by way of emotions would lead to disaster and the Shi'ar were gonna kill Jean to stop it from happening!

Well as far as I know, Galactus is not mortal now and even if he takes a mortal form he's not mortal. He's also more of a force of nature than a dastardly cosmic being! I don't know what psycho image you described, but that isn't about Galactus. Also, Owen can do whatever he wants but that fact remains HE HAS HAD NO DISCIPLINE TO ACQUIRE HIS POWERS! GALACTUS HAS LEARNED IT, SILVER SURFER HAS LEARNED IT, AND THE HIGH EVOLUTIONARY HAS LEARNED IT. Owen just thinks it and it happens and employs to technique at all to getting it done. The same is not true of the others. They don't just think it and it happens but they demonstrate intelligence far beyond that of a mortal man and far beyond an mere mortal life can offer! High Evolutionary and Silver Surfer were granted the mental capacity to understand such things! While Owen could grant himself the capacity HE COULD NOT FILL IT WITH ANYTHING HE DOES NOT ALREADY KNOW!!!!!!

____________________________________________


"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 04:46PM
I meant _Owen employs NO technique to get it done_

____________________________________________


"POWER.... WITHOUT "perception" is virtually USELESS.... and therefore of NO.... "true" VALUE"
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 08:06PM
avatar
*blinks* Seems like the one tripping's you with that commentary. The Silver Surfer is of decidedly normal intelligence who 'thinks it and makes it happen' with his powers, Galactus spent millions of years after he awakened in the present universe learning about his powers and what he could do because they didn't come with an instruction manual and Owen Reece is in the same position of learning and expanding his mind as all those formerly mortal beings were. There's no difference in the end between Galactus starting mortal and being turned into a cosmic being and what happened with Owen Reece, other than he feared his powers at first until his mental blocks were removed. There was also a short time after Galactus turned Johnny Storm as the Invisible Man into his herald that he was stripped of his powers and reverted to a mortal being until the power later found and rejoined him. Owen just isn't that nerdy little scared child with god-like power he used to be, he's studied his powers and the nature of reality through them and considerably increased his knowledge and power as a result. The only reason you end up seeing him otherwise is poor writing, either going by what he was like when he came out 30+ years ago or because they just hate seeing any mortal being become cosmically powered and step into the cosmic arena.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 09:56PM
avatar
Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *blinks* Seems like the one tripping's you with
> that commentary. The Silver Surfer is of
> decidedly normal intelligence who 'thinks it and
> makes it happen' with his powers, Galactus spent
> millions of years after he awakened in the present
> universe learning about his powers and what he
> could do because they didn't come with an
> instruction manual and Owen Reece is in the same
> position of learning and expanding his mind as all
> those formerly mortal beings were. There's no
> difference in the end between Galactus starting
> mortal and being turned into a cosmic being and
> what happened with Owen Reece, other than he
> feared his powers at first until his mental blocks
> were removed.


Except y'know... those trillions of years that Galactus had to fully understand those powers.

Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 21, 2007 10:31PM
avatar
Galactus has only had billions of years at best, and like most cosmic beings has had little to really test or push him to his ultimate potential and limits except in recent years. Owen's been pushed and tested repeatedly in his short existence and required to expand beyond his comfortable beginnings and mortal perceptions. Heck even Kubik stated how difficult it was for beings of a cosmic nature to grow and expand when they can reshape reality to make it things easy for themselves. You also seem to miss how your argument supports mine, that Owen can continue to grow into full cosmic status when it comes to his knowledge over time like Galactus did, and is just as powerful if not moreso than he is.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 01:07AM
well, i don't know about how much testing of his limits went on in Galactus's younger days, although Tyrant seems to have been one, and i think there was also at least one other i can't think of now(With billions of years of exploration of other dimensions and realities, surely he encountered his fair share of challenges?). He does indeed have a HUGE difference in experience in the use of his powers. No matter how hard it may have been for him to expand his knowledge of his abilities, his billions upon billions of years of learning and practice using his abilities every day easily beat out anything that Owen may have taught himself in 30 years or so since his empowerment....
This is the most telling thing.

Experience bests Power the majority of the time. Look at the martial arts for the example. The little old man who weighs 100 lbs. soaking wet who is a grandmaster of the art easily defeats the stronger, faster, younger opponent.

Galactus is the grandmaster of his arts, while Owen is maybe a 3rd degree black belt(metaphorically speaking)...

Yes, Owen is indeed on a cosmic level of exsistance, and on one quite a bit higher than such as the silver surfer, but as has been pointed out to Kubic, there are levels upon levels of said exsistence.
I believe that he(Owen Reese), as well as the high evolutionary, are on a lower level of the cosmic hierarchy than Galactus...


So, all things being equal, I would have to give the definitive edge to Galactus,

"Worlds Within Worlds!,
World Without End!..."
"There are Universes inside my Mind!!!"
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 08:06AM
avatar
Dude, we're talking 20 billion years experience vs 20 years experience. How can you even pretend to compare the two? Maybe someday Owen will have the level of understanding and enlightenment that Galactus has, but right now Owen is a blind kitten comparatively in terms of wisdom and enlightenment. Galactus knows tricks that Owen can't yet even comprehend.

Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 09:53AM
avatar
Which Owen makes up for by being more powerful in general, since sometimes power does trump experience, particularly if the gulf is wide enough.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 05:23PM
avatar
The gulf is not wide enough, sorry.

Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 05:30PM
The Living T is not really that powerful. It's just another stupid 90's retcon. Somehow the LT became more powerful than Eternity or Death. Yet in early issues of Dr. Strange, the Doc could thwart some of LT's best laid plans himself. The In-betweener was an agent of the LT and he's not really that powerful. But when they messed up with the stupid Infinty war thing from the 90's they needed a way out and LT retcon provided it.

Phooey. As far as I am concerned (and millions of other comic fans) the MU "died" in the early 90's and the Beyonder is the most powerful force in the history of the MU. (Owen Reece is a close 2nd).

Therefore, Owen reece easily wins. hands down.
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 08:09PM
avatar
Nice to see someone else who rejects that forced retcon for the Beyonder and dragging Owen Reece into it. Took some great work and trashed it all because of one idiot and spiteful editor.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 08:19PM
avatar
Yes the gulf is more than enough for Owen to exceed Galactus even if you accept that lame retcon.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 08:40PM
avatar
There's no way, dude. Galactus is -just- short of the likes of Eternity and Death, and there's no way I'm buying that Owen is as powerful as those two.

Game wise, it's a stretch even to accept Owen at Class 3000 levels (especially since every published game supplement and website with Owen in it lists him at Class 1000 ability max, with Class 3000 -only- in Disruption or Disintegration). Even if he were at Class 5000 (and there's absolutely no way I'm buying that), 1CS is hardly enough of a Gulf to make up for the difference of 20 billion years experience.

Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 08:42PM
avatar
Eh, the In-Between was a servant of Chaos and Order, not the Living Tribunal as far as I've ever read (and that's via the OHtMU). Incidentally, I do agree that the Beyonder's retcon was a joke. I just think Owen isn't to Galactus' level yet. Give him a few billion years of existence first.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2007 08:43PM by Punstarr.
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 09:33PM
avatar
Considering him in his 'classic' form he was second only to the Beyonder and even Eternity treated Owen with respect, and not being one to give such a character any trivializing as the retcon did if Eternity, Death, and the Living Tribunal could respond with respect towards him Galactus would have little chance in a straight-up fight with Owen.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread
Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 09:37PM
avatar
Treating someone with "respect" doesn't mean they're more powerful than you. It means you respect them, for whatever reason. There are many reasons why one would respect someone. I consider him Class 1000, Class 3000 at best.

Re: Galactus vs The Molecule Man
November 22, 2007 09:46PM
avatar
Within days of having his mental blocks removed Owen was rebuilding the entire galaxy the Beyonder erased, generating space warps for teleportation and able to substitute for the various utilities that the suburb of Denver he eventually got back to earth had been cut off from. Seems to me he was a very fast learner when the mental restraints he put on his awareness had been removed and he wasn't afraid of his powers.

"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it."

-- Peter David

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmask Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Paragon Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Complete list of my characters various forum URLs, over 30 to enjoy!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Godiva Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Seraphim Character Sheet

[www.furaffinity.net] Art by Marvel Comic's artist Rusty Haller!

[www.furaffinity.net] Artist/writer/Creator of The Extinctioners Independent super-hero comic!

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Sappho Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Cornucopia Character Sheet

[www.classicmarvel.com] - Nightmares of Futures Past Ongoing Story

[www.classicmarvel.com] - There is no such thing as too powerful Forum Thread

TSR is a registered trademark owned by TSR Inc. TSR inc. is a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a division of Hasbro, Inc. Names(s) of character(s) and the distinctive likeness(es) thereof are Trademarks and © of Marvel Characters, Inc. and are used without permission.

Names(s) of character(s) and the distinctive likeness(es) thereof are Trademarks and © of DC Comics and are used without permission. This site is not intended to make money. It provides resources to players of a game no longer being produced.